Spoombung

Just got to keep going with these...

Okay, it's time to think about the headstock. As the neck will be quite narrow at the nut I'd like something that's quite slim. I dislike paddle-like headstocks like this: Although I like the way the fingerboard slopes down to the headstock and doesn't end abruptly at the nut, I'm not that keen the Wal (although it obviously has an iconic, nostalgic appeal to me now) What I'm after is a bit slimmer and more elegant something like this: My all time favourite has got to be the Sei bass: It really is exquisite - so I think I'm going to sketch something out along those lines in 2 + 2 combination and maybe try a 3 + 1

[quote name='7string' post='385618' date='Jan 19 2009, 11:42 PM']:lol: Just for a bit more info, Alan built a prototype bass which had 1 magnetic p/u with a piezo bridge and ran these into the 2 inputs of the ACG pre. With my 9 (and some other ACG's now) it's 2 magnetic p/u's and piezo bridge. A switch selects either the bridge p/u or the piezo so you can shape the piezo tone. On most of the other basses I have seen, you can only blend in a piezo signal, so if you don't like the sound of the piezo, that's tough luck. This way you can shape the piezo tone and mix it with the neck magnetic p/u.[/quote] He's an ingenious fellow, that much is clear and his star is in the ascendency. I'm going to have to think about this again. I still remain convinced the only way to way to be sure about an instrument builder is to pick up an example of their work. Tactile is truth.

[quote name='7string' post='385592' date='Jan 19 2009, 11:19 PM']When I was putting together the spec for my ACG 9, I decided to throw the whole kitchen sink at it and include piezo and MIDI. With a change in my recording setup, I ended up dropping the MIDI. Ghost (Graphtec) make a piezo preamp onto which fits the MIDI preamp, so no extra wiring is necessary. They also make replacement saddles which have the piezo element in them and these plug into the preamp. No soldering thank goodness! Hipshot make a bridge with the piezo element already in them. [url="http://www.graphtech.com/products.html?SubCategoryID=14"]http://www.graphtech.com/products.html?SubCategoryID=14[/url][/quote] I can see I might have to rethink this project and give Alan another call...

[quote name='gilmour' post='385360' date='Jan 19 2009, 08:36 PM']If you're looking for scope for more tones from what I've heard I'd agree with Red's suggestion about an ACG. Alternativley why not try to do something in the bridge? A Piezo in combination with the Bridge pickup, that would give you a broader range of tones, and wouldn't affect the aesthetic of the bass? A [url="http://www.lightwave-systems.com/lightwavepickup/LightWavePickup.htm"]lightwave system[/url]? Although they do make the bridge look really chunky or even a combined [url="http://www.graphtech.com/products.html?SubCategoryID=18"]Piezo/Midi system[/url][/quote] Interesting suggestions. I'm all for design by committee - in fact that's how great bands happen.

[quote name='7string' post='385440' date='Jan 19 2009, 09:37 PM']If you arrange a time to visit Alan and can grab a flight to Glasgow, I wouldn't mind driving you down to ACG.[/quote] That's a nice idea. Maybe I should do that. Might be a logistical nightmare for a single parent, but where there's a will there's a way.

[quote name='BigRedX' post='384932' date='Jan 19 2009, 01:28 PM']For pickups I'd have a look at [url="http://www.q-tuner.com/"]Q-Tuners[/url] - alexclaber has them on his bass so he'll be able to give you a good idea of how they sound, I'd also look at the ACG pre-amps for Wal-type tones, especially the 01 model if you're going for a two pickup bass which gives you the most flexibility, however that means getting Alan to build the bass for you as it's now the only way of getting this version of the pre-amp. On the subject of jack socket placement, I'd think twice about fitting a Strat-type socket to the back of the bass. I have a Lace Helix Bass with this arrangement and getting the angle right to plug in the lead while the bass is strapped on is ridiculously tricky. I personally like the arrangement on the [url="http://www.gusguitars.com/product.php?model_id=7"]Gus Basses (pic second from the right)[/url] far more user friendly for a rear-mounted socket.[/quote] I\ have been looking at the Q-Tuners bout would really like to hear some soundfiles. Does alexcaber live in London by any chance? I was wondering about those Lace Helix basses. Gosh, you must have a huge collection. I realise I could kill two birds with one stone by asking Alan to make the bass because his system sounds great - I would still like hear soundfiles, though, or better still find someone who has one of his basses down here in London.

[quote name='josh3184' post='384881' date='Jan 19 2009, 12:38 PM']t Liking the sideways coils, how would that affect the tone tho?I'd imagine getting a signal from such a long length of the string would get quite a unique sound. Would there be any way to pan from one end of it to the other?[/quote] Yeah. I'm wondering the same thing. The combination of say, an EMG at the bridge and those lipstick things further down might look somewhat incongruous. Thinking about pickups is giving me a headache - and the project can't start till I've made up my mind about them.

[quote name='budget bassist' post='384579' date='Jan 19 2009, 12:34 AM']With regards to the pickup conundrum, if you wanted something very interesting, italia do a bass with sideways mounted single coil lipstick pickups, that could be an idea?[/quote] Wow. Thank you. You may have saved me.

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='384499' date='Jan 18 2009, 11:11 PM']I'm sure there are some your way, why not start a thread, we're a friendly bunch. I'm in Kendal otherwise you're more than welcome Peter[/quote] I did do, Peter: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=34196&hl=ACG+bass"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...amp;hl=ACG+bass[/url] As far as I know, no one on the board has one in London.

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='384486' date='Jan 18 2009, 11:01 PM']Just an observation, the body shape at the bottom is very ACG Harlot i.e. very nice indeed. I find my Harlot fits in a stand fine, just a little off centre, or better still a neck hanging stand. Interesting form/function, ascetic/ergonomic conundrum Peter[/quote] I [i]really[/i] want to play one of those ACG basses!

[quote name='fleabag' post='384485' date='Jan 18 2009, 10:59 PM']Fair play Spoom. I guess you're gonna have to raid the piggy bank on this one. Even though you've done the drawings, i have the feeling that its a lot more costly to build a one off to a customers designs, due to the builder not having templates off the shelf.[/quote] Well I commonly hear three stories: 1. No mate, I can't do that, that'll cost you another grand cos I've gotta make a template from scratch, etc. No we don't do one-offs. Clear off. and... 2. I haven't got that much high tech gear but I'll have a go for you. Might cost you a bit extra and... 3. That's no trouble. All I've got to do is scan you drawing into my computer and the automated cutting and routing device will produce it for you. and variations. of the above See what I mean?

[quote name='fleabag' post='384451' date='Jan 18 2009, 10:25 PM']Twice now you've been recommended a UK Bass builder but ignored it both times. Do you have a problem with ACG basses and their design ? Is it some big secret about who's going to build it ?[/quote] No, no, you've got that all wrong. I've spoken at length to Alan at ACG and really admire his designs. He was incredibly helpful and handed out great advice - really simple things like how to produce an accurate drawing for instance. We also spoke about his electronic designs. Alan was actually the first person i had in mind and he gave me a quote. Although i have never played one of his basses before, I have every confidence he could build this instrument really well. However, I have to consider that he lives hundreds of miles from me in Scotland and it would be impossible for me to visit him. Feel free to disagree with me if you like - but I think there are 3 crucial points when it is helpful for luthier and his client to be present together. 1. To approve of the body shape and contouring before it's finished 2. To approve of the neck carving and profile 3. Set up/ action These factors are really important to me and after lots of thought my inclination is to commission someone more local and accessible. As I haven't put down a deposit yet I lean on the side of discretion.

Now we come to one of my pet-hates in electric bass design: [i]the side mounted jack plug[/i]! What crazy fool thought this was a good idea? I've spent my life turning the bass upside down to find that wretched socket - and if you've got to do that at a gig or a rehearsal room everyone hates you for all the deadening pops and buzzes and general noise pollution you create. Plus, you can't recline on a sofa and play your bass with the lead sticking in the covers! Important! What was wrong with the good old Fender face jack input? Well I'm determined to own a bass with a jack socket [i]where I can see it[/i] this time - or a least in a position that makes sense. I'm looking at two options. One like this: (common to Ibanez basses) and beautiful, ergonomic and simple. Or the more radical back of the bass (like this Ritter) which would also suit my design because of the lowered oval shape where the controls will be.

Okay, it's time to look at the drawings, have a think and outline some concerns I have about the design. Now, the first thing that immediately seems obvious to me is there is only likely to be enough space for one pick up because of the proximity of the knee curve to the line of the strings in which case I would want to position the pickup near the bridge as I tend to play with that on all the time with my other bass. However, I do like a blend of the bridge and neck pickups (in fact I produced a whole album in the past with that combination resulting in tracks like [url="http://tinpanalley.biz/spoombung/Spoombung/11-I%20Dreamt%20of%20C.%20Lyons.mp3"]this[/url], for instance). So I'm wondering whether I can squeeze a small pick up in the middle of the bass before the knee curve starts. I'll have to do some research. Actually thinking about what pickups to use is starting to aggravate me a bit. Why on earth is the nothing like the Wal pickup around? Juicy depth and hi-fi clarity. The second is the narrowness of the neck at the nut - a proposed 34mm. That's going to make it vulnerable and I need to check whether I can have the neck reinforced with carbon rods when I have it made. The third is that I can see it won't stand upright and will be impossible to prop against a wall because of the curves. It will simply fall over - as the hardboard version does. It's easy to dismiss this sort of thing as trivial but it could quite easily turn into a right pain in the butt - so I may have to think of a prop of some sort like a piece of curved plastic to fit onto the strap lock. Lastly, I need to give the headstock some serious thought.

[quote name='BigRedX' post='384223' date='Jan 18 2009, 06:28 PM']Interesting ideas. Do you have someone in mind to build this for you yet? Just in case you're looking for more inspiration for the body shape, here's a couple of designs that look as though they've the same thinking as you: [url="http://www.rolfspuler.com/gb/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=126"]The Rolf Spuler Affirma Bass[/url] [url="http://www.littee.free.fr/pages/sl.html"]The Littee SL Bass[/url] Looking forward to seeing how this develops. Also I've been enjoying listening to your Musical Saw playing from the "Whispering Foils" CD - amazing stuff![/quote] You really are an encyclopedia of bass knowledge, Red. Both of those links are fascinating. Glad you're enjoying [url="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kevin.hopper1/Foils.html"]Whispering Foils[/url]! I [i]do[/i] have someone in mind to build it but I just need to fine tune the design and make a few more decisions on things like pickups and headstock shapes before I put a deposit down.

And it's not so far away from the standing angle I play my Wal bass at:

How fitting I'm playing my fantasy, hardboard bass in the pink, Sylvanian - inspired landscape of my daughter's bedroom. I've got to say the balance and proportions seem fantastic at the moment. I wonder what will happen when it gets transformed into wood?

[quote name='fleabag' post='383864' date='Jan 18 2009, 11:55 AM']You building it yourself, or getting a Luthier to build it ? After seeing some of his basses dotted around the net, i reckon ACG would make that into a monster He's in the uK and his prices are reckoned to be excellent[/quote] I can't even put up a shelf properly so yes - someone else will make it for me!

[quote name='budget bassist' post='383555' date='Jan 17 2009, 09:00 PM']That looks cool, really reminds me of a ritter or an ibanez EDA900 Any headstock ideas yet? And i think you could probably get away with making the bottom horn a bit small and less phallic, if that's what you're going for. Also, you really remind me of Martin Clunes![/quote] Ah, yes, I'm aware of those basses. There is a similarity with the ergonomics. I'd love to try one but have never seen one in a shop. The angle of the lower horn is quite shallow though and the knee cut is flatter and further away from the strings - so the pivot angle would be lower. That's where the designs differ. Plus I'm wanting short scale with a very narrow nut - 34mm - which i will come to shortly... Martin Clunes? I'm far better looking.

Right I've done yet another cut out lowering the upper horn, shaving off a bit of the lower and I moved the position of the leg curve slightly to the right. Now it's time to glue on the neck and measure the scale distance from the nut to the string saddles and make a slightly raised lump to suggest the bridge position. Then I'll have my first proper mock-up to think about. Okay... HERE IT IS! Good grief. It's wonderful. I already love it so much it's very tempting just to stop proceedings right now and live with my hardboard, dream bass! I mean, why bother spending all that money getting a real one made up when this could be quite adequate, quite satisfactory? It's an elegant solution if you think about it.

Well, I'll be a son of a gun. It actually feels very comfortable! I'm heading in the right direction The lower horn is still looking inevitably, rather risque, but I can see if I shave off another cm from the end and deepen the oval shape of the lower body it might look better. I might as well sweep the curve a bit more at the forearm ease and lower the angle of the upper horn and work toward squeezing the body design into a gig bag. The top of bass is more mysterious to me because, I suppose, theoretically, there is really no need for the top part of a solid, wooden, electric instrument at all -other than to have an upper horn to attach a strap. The temptation is to go a bit radical but the puritan in me is resisting.

Okay, it's back to the drawing board - with a bit of liquid help - and a few more modifications, re-drawing and a couple of cutouts. Hopefully I can filter out the X- rated content of the previous effort and try and restrain myself a little. Well, you, know, that's not too bad and quite a bit closer to what I'm aiming for. Instead of an ugly, crooked phallus it's starting to resemble a shapely woman waving enthusiastically with the promise of a box of chocolates and a peck on the cheek. Unfortunately Other aspects of the shape are starting to worry me now - like the rather elevated upper horn (oh, the trouble I have with horns) and I suspect it won't fit into a regular gig bag. Hmmm.

Oh God, that's...HUGE.....and quite obscene! No! No! I can't have that. I'm going to have to censor it!

What the....?! Well I said an [i]extended lower horn [/i]but this is ridiculous...and rather rude. You've got to be joking!