chyc

Depending on the layout of the cabinet, placing it on its side may move the woofer significantly closer to the floor. That can have a difference to the sound. Similarly if there's a tweeter with different vertical and horizontal dispersion patterns.

Yeah, it's a beautiful sound. No boom at all. I have an ABM 600 which I've never tried with it. I think that's for my next bass gig where I travel by car. Last gig I cycled the BC110t on the back of my bike!

Next up is the wedding where these will be PA tops. Can't wait!

OK, I've done some critical listening, and I don't think I can pass judgement on the design as I don't think I've made it right. I played a 30Hz tone at a fair volume and there were definitely artefacts that shouldn't be there. I ran my ear along all the seams and couldn't detect any leaking so the turbulence may well be something inside the cabinet.

That I can probably live with. What I cannot is there is a pronounced hump in the upper bass frequencies, probably between 100-400Hz. It may be the room I'm playing it in, but I played my Acoustic Image side by side and that was a much flatter response.

This cabinet was intended to be the prototype using cheap wood. I'm still bitterly disappointed that I didn't nail it, but I'm a little buoyed that I'll be able to correct the niggling errors that I made along the way with a second one. If I'm slow enough the horn may well come back in stock!

6 hours ago, stevie said:

Fitting an alternative means changing the crossover, as a crossover designed specifically for the P-170 won't work properly with anything else. The Celestion horn, for example, is physically deeper and also louder, which means that the phase will be wrong at the crossover point and it will sound harsh.

Yeah, sucks to spend more on something that doesn't fit the requirements. The cutouts are different so it's not like I can swap it when it does come back in stock, and the horn's weight is noticeable when holding it on its own: it's a chunky monkey.

Haven't been able to play through it today as the cabinet is being painted. I've built a frame for a cloth grille. What kind of fabric is suitable? I read somewhere that mosquito netting is good but I cannot find it now that I'm searching.

9 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

What amp were you using?  We did a lot of testing with recorded music and i didn't notice a veiled sound particularly. I have had some issues though with phones running into a mono input. I've tried these at home with my hi-fi, they don't sound as good as my hi-fi speakers but of course they aren't designed for that but the Silverstones  give my RCF PA speakers a run for their money.

I think this must be it: I've used both phones into a mono input, and CDs from my Denon hi-fi. Perfectly pleasant to listen to all genres except classical, but I'd prefer the Denon bookshelf speakers given the choice. I have very little frames of reference you see, so maybe I'm comparing the wrong things. I have the GSS 06B400MKD which sound absolutely amazing for hifi, but the speakers in those are coaxial studio monitors. The coax isn't a gimmick, it really makes a difference when you're sitting right next to your speakers.

9 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

That horn (the Celestion No Bell) is the best horn we have found for this size of driver to date, it is more expensive than the recommended one and slightly heavier, the other horn to look at is the B&C ME10 if you want something as cheap as the P-Audio.

I see that the P-Audio is out of stock again. It's a popular horn clearly.

5 minutes ago, JohnDaBass said:

Could you and your wife's perception of the treble roll off be something to do with the crossover?

Unlikely as that is a part that I didn't make!

For the BC110T I swapped out the woofer for one that is 3dB more sensitive, so the less sensitive highs was probably my fault. I know enough electronics to realize that it's the resistor that causes attenuation so I shorted the resistor in the design. It is much much better now because of that, but I wasn't expecting to do it here, but given the above it may just be me. I'll report back when the cabinet has done a gig, or when I've practised a few hours through it. I'm buoyed that I plugged in a double bass and no knob twiddling needed it sounded fantastic and rather loud (or so my children say, I was enjoying myself too much at the time to notice.)

10 hours ago, BlueMoon said:

I have the same issue with the P Audio horn being out of stock, seemingly everywhere. @chyc which horn did you eventually use?

 

Nice work overall and thanks for sharing your experiences.

Thanks @BlueMoon for your kind words.

I bought the Celestion Horn, available at Lean Business in the UK. Whether they ship to the continent I do not know sadly.

40 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

The BC 112 mk 3 is essentially a proper FRFR bass speaker. The bass driver and wooden cab will handle bass better than almost any PA speaker and the frequency response has no nasty peaks or troughs. That makes it very different in it's sound from most bass speakers which will have a peak in the upper mids which is in the top end of a bass. You would need to re-eq for this speaker in all probability. I suspected the 110T would be good for DB, the extra volume and extra low frequencies are going to lead you potential feedback resonance problems but the gentle early roll off of the 110 would help with that. Try rolling back the bass on your amp with the Mk3 and see how that sounds.

I will do this. I don't have the two cabinets side by side at the moment to compare. I've just played a double bass through it and I have to say it did sound rather good. Would people like sound samples of this, the BC110T, a GSS 06B400 MKD and an Acoustic Image Coda R? Nothing scientific, just a fun shootout of all my cabinets.

40 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

 

We've all got very used to the coloured sound of our normal bass speakers and when you first listen to the clean sound of your bass through a flat response speaker it is somewhat underwhelming at first. You will really miss the artificial colour of a traditional bass speaker. Then  when you hear the extra details you'll start thinking 'OK yeah I get that' but you will still miss what you have lost.

The muted highs were from playing music through the cabinets from my phone. Are traditional (inexpensive) hi-fi cabinets scoop voiced? My wife can hear a subtle treble rolloff as well so I don't think it's just me. A nudge with the EQ fixes things so it's not critical by any means, and I don't even need to do that when playing bass, which ultimately is all I care about.

These cabinets are going to be played and worn in. I have a wedding in March and depending on how the chips fall I may be using the BC110Ts as PA tops for a ceilidh band! The BC112 will then take double bass duty

40 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

 

On the other hand the 110T is a little gem, I've not fallen out of love with mine and it is such a practical solution for my needs so long s ultimate volume is not the issue. I still use it a lot.

It is indeed. To have a pair demolish a big band in an acoustically compromised venue for me shows just how potent they are. I probably could have got away with a single BC112, but I would have needed a bigger amp than the "100W" GSS Bullet

If you notice I changed the model of horn. That was for the simple reason that the one in the design was out of stock when it came to ordering. I understand that this changes phase and dispersion so with my mk3 that may be the reason the highs are a little muted. I picked the horn that explicitly listed compatibility with the Celestion CDX1-1415. It was never my intention to make it look like a Monaco, and as it so happened I took so long the horn came back in stock again. Doh!

Now, the planer. Firstly I have to admit this was my first time in this so there was some pilot error, but definitely the wood didn't help. Both the planer and the sander seemed to latch onto loose ply and use that to rip up the fascias on some of the panels. There was none of that with the nice Baltic birch. Again, wood filler has saved me.

Initial thoughts: like the BC110T I think its highs are a little veiled.  Do I need to wait for the speakers to loosen up? I would have thought that waiting would give me more bass rather than more treble, but I'm no expert. In terms of as a bass cabinet, I can totally hear stuff through this cabinet that doesn't come out the BC110T. There's an authoritative thud (not boomy I hasten to add) for kickdrum and low bass. That may be your jam, but I'm not working in those genres and I have to admit that the BC110T with its smaller size, and particularly its lower weight, is a better fit for me personally. I will say that the BC112mk3 seems to have better dispersion in the sense that I can sit on it and can hear what I'm playing. This may prove incredibly useful as the cabinet is the perfect height to sit on while playing a double bass.

By no means am I disappointed with this cabinet: it sounds great with a bass and maybe I can grow to love it as a general purpose noise maker. I'll report back in a month or two once it's bedded in, but as things stand, I think the 10" speaker is better for double bass.

I will have to post later about my experiences with a planer and sander. All I can say is that cheap wood and planing and sanding do not mix at all, and I have become quite an expert in wood filler as a result

If you're serious about being talked out of a purchase, I get the vibe that when you ruck up with a fretless bass, people think you're a show-off, whether rightly or wrongly. Bizarrely nobody seems to think that about a violin or cello player, but life isn't fair.

It's the final straight. Last panel glued down and drying now.

I've made my first major boob unfortunately. If you've made the cabinet before you can probably see it just by looking at this photo:

Basically I didn't like the vertical mount of the rear panel, so I rotated it. Now unfortunately I cannot put the rear brace up the back panel without interfering with the connector plate. Bummer

Not to worry, I'm unlikely going to be playing anything heavier than Neil Sedaka so I just added a noggin that dangles just above the plate.  You can see it in the photo above.

I have tins and tins of seriously out of date paint. I'm going to open them up and see what options I have on the colour front. This was supposed to be the experimental build using uber cheap wood, but to be honest while I didn't nail everything first time, it's turned out pretty well, and I'm sure it will become a perfectly usable cabinet; this may well be my last build!

The wood was atrocious though. Voids galore.

I believe this has sold already.

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

Wondering if you have made any more progress on this?

Afraid not. It's being built at my parents' house with all the tools, a fair distance away from where I live. That's why it's always so slow progress with me Hoping to visit next week (half-term) and most likely I will be able to get some sound out of it then. Really cannot wait!

21 minutes ago, Ralf1e said:

Last time I bought a guitar from Thomann they used UPS I think and I was charges about twice the import duty I should have been. The excuse from Thomann was it is the couriers brokers who set the value and duty there is nothing we can do goodbye.

Now you may call that sorted out properly I don't!

I had exactly the same thing! Based on my own experiences I would place UPS lower than Evri for reliability and service.

20 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

Yea h the big problem is feedback due to the resonant body of a DB. At the very least it is going to smear the sound and at worse it is so bad you have to turn down because the feedback is horrendous. A lot of commercial cabs have too much bass in the wrong areas for an upright even if they work well with an electric bass. The flat response of the 110T and limited deep bass become a real bonus.

Agreed. When the (pair of) cabinets is positioned around 10 feet behind me, they are absolutely perfect. I can hear myself clearly to tune, and the room fills up with the warm hum of a double bass that you just cannot get with an electric, although granted you can get close if all you do is pluck.

I'll take this opportunity to thank three people again, @stevie and @Phil Starr for their amazing work designing, testing and writing up this cabinet, and the mk3, and @GlamBass74 for all his advice and support off-thread. I've gone from someone who didn't know what plywood was to someone who's built, finished and varnished his own cabinet!

I think next time I will lean the cabinet back. Thanks for the tip about rotating the horn. It looks symmetric but the blurb online says that it does have different vertical and horizontal dispersion so that may be an option, like on the BC112mk3. Don't think it would have helped in this case as the cab really was right next to me.

The cabinet really is a very good fit for double bass. A bigger cone and cab will give me extended lows which I'm never going to need, and since I have two the SPL is taken care of already and I can easily take on drummers. I may even get away with one if ever I play with a tasteful drummer (if such a thing exists).

Just finished a community panto, playing bass. What a blast, had a great time. Played three performances with my Acoustic Image Coda [AI], and three with the BC110T, for science. The BC112mk3 still isn't ready sadly. I think that from the audience's point of view the BC110T sounded better. There's definitely more welly in the lower bass frequencies what with it being a ported design, and there was no boom to tame with a HPF. There's one scene where I bow a low A pedal note, and through the BC110T came this wonderful powerful growl that I have never ever been able to achieve before.

However, the praise isn't all one way traffic: the AI, because of its clever down-firing woofer and mid range speaker was much, much clearer to me, which is important when you need to hear yourself to tune. This is a community panto and in the "pit" there was enough room for me, the cabinet/amp and a cup of tea. Thus, the speakers were around 2 feet behind me at ground level and served as both monitors and the only bass amplification for the room (seating capacity around 80). I'm sure I was vibrating teeth out in the front row, but I couldn't always hear myself. The AI is much smaller, although in this instance it has points deducted for that as I couldn't place my mug of tea on top of it.

Next year if I'm asked back, I'll hopefully have the mk3 so I can bikeshed with even more cabinets

2 hours ago, JohnDaBass said:

@chyc when you complete your project could you post a sonic review of your handywork?

Could you compare your achievement with other cabs you have used? 

You can count on it!

A word of warning though: my kit can be politely described as niche, and mainly geared towards double bass and lightweight cabinets.  I'm also incredibly lax about my sound, so long as I can hear myself.

Am I the only person on this planet that prefers the staggered pots?

I've played the Yamaha TRBX 605, which essentially is the one you played with fancier wood. I did not get on with it at all. I ordered it in at PMT to try before I buy, thinking it would tick all the right boxes, but it didn't. I found the cheaper basses there, like the Sterling SUBs to be far better for playability and tone. I'd note that prices have gone a bit bonkers now so I don't know if the price differentials are the same.

It's clearly a marmite bass. When it was no longer reserved for me and PMT put it on the shelf, it was gone within two weeks.

Gig over. The verdict is that these cabinets are indeed perfect for double bass, and are plenty powerful and clear.  I played some small band stuff, but also some big band which I wasn't expecting. These cabinets filled the room with the GSS bullet amplifier you can see on top of it. Got some nice compliments about my sound, and a distinct lack of compliments about the woodworking and varnishing efforts on display.

Venue was a nightmare scenario of a gym with hard floor and high(ish) ceilings. Almost certain my Acoustic Image wouldn't have coped but this setup worked fine. It is significantly heavier mind you, and while there was a little left on the dials to give more welly, the GSS was warm to the touch by the end of the gig and I wouldn't want to chance it. It's soo portable and cute though how could anyone not love it?

I will have to get L brackets for the grille as the duct tape holding them in place is starting to peel. I think I will also make a scrap ply wedge to angle the upper cabinet towards my beautiful face next time (if there is a next time: I was quite rusty.)

Here is all my equipment fitting into my car, double bass, cabinets, and child seat because I was too lazy to take it out.

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

Let us know how you get on

Bad news. The venue have helpfully provided their own equipment. I may have to throw a hissy fit and say that my sound is unique and can only be achieved with the equipment I've brought.

I'll be taking these puppies on their maiden gig tomorrow. Double bass + GSS B-100. Should be fun.

For the record, the higher sensitivity of the 10NTR-2520E over the Pulse 10 meant that high frequencies were a little shrouded for my taste in the end. I could have fixed that with eq, but at the same time the crossover was there for tinkering. I knew just enough electronics to know that the resistor handles sensitivity of the tweeter in this simple design, and phase shifting isn't really going to (ahem) phase me, so I just shorted the 4.7Ω resistor. @GlamBass74 helpfully showed me a link which (for Convair's crossover at least) gives a -4dB attenuation when using a 4.7Ω. The Pulse 10 is 2dB less sensitive than the 10NTR-2520E so in theory I've gone too far, but I reckon only a cat would hear the difference, and it's done now Really happy with these cabinets. They look the biz too, and hopefully the natural finish will age like a fine wine compared with peeling tolex and fluffy patchy carpet.

14 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

How's the build going?

It goes in fits and starts. I'm actually building it at my parents' house so was able to get a fair bit done. All sides are in, as is the wadding. The top needs to go on, but there's about 1mm discrepancy in the height of the four walls. I will need to take a plane to a side before I am able to put the last side in. I'm now back home but will update as soon as I can.

I've been in correspondence with @GlamBass74 who has been an immense help and support to me in this and the BC110T builds. One thing that I was going to blindly do (and may still do) is use wood screws to drill in the woofer. I figured that it was light enough and I wasn't going to be taking it in and out once everything was build. However, he did suggest reinforcing the inside of the baffle with either a ring or small strips of spare ply. I didn't do it for my BC110Ts and the wood screws barely poked out the other side, but for the heavier 12PR320 is it a necessity?

That looks lovely and a lovely price to boot. GLWTS