Paul S

Interesting scenario - i did this. I had a Fender Precision Lyte bass that had a badly refinished body that was almost but not quite the matching colour for the original headstock. I had the body refinished, sanded the headstock down to natural wood and had a duplicate decal made with the original serial number. Where does this fit?

Flushed with success from my first purchase I just stuck loads more stuff into a second basket, went to pay using the code and it told me I had already used the code - so do it all in one go, folks!

Nice. I had one a while back - fantastic tone and playability. Best vfm fretless out there, I reckon. Or fretted, come to that.

Brilliant! had some stuff in my basket I was mulling over - 20% off makes the decision. Thank you for the heads up.

Actually, you are right. That was nonsense. With a little time to reflect I think everyone here is a bit right and a bit wrong. Here's my wrong bit - after spending half my working life in a criminal law environment that is how I view things, so when I saw something being described as a deception when it wasn't within criminal law definition of a deception that is what I focused on. Thereby losing sight of the other issues, which was the trademark issue. Trademarks, copyright, intellectual property are subject to law, just a different law to criminal law, and so technically any infringement of trademark law is illegal. So I was wrong to overlook that and apologise for adding fuel to the whole debate in my small but stubborn way. Had I taken the time to read properly everything I would have been brought back in line. Our legal system is complex with different levels and layers of laws governing different aspects of how we interact with each other. A bit like an onion - all those skins. When I was a copper I dealt largely with criminal law - deep in the core of the legal system -it is the remit of police to monitor these laws and ultimately these can be dealt with in the criminal court. Also traffic laws. But there are a myriad other laws dealing with everything else in society from buying/selling houses to trademarks, copyrights and other intellectual property. There are dealt with in a completely different way in civil court where an individual or company has to make the case privately, usually with solicitors acting on their behalf. Sometimes important issues but generally not with the same gravitas as criminal law. This is what the Rickenbacker issue is all about and also the main issue here, I think. The OP was about headstock logos and, yes, it is illegal to use a trademark in this case under laws governing intellectual property. The situation is clearly black and white, what would be called an absolute offence, requiring no proof other that the fact itself. But is it important? It is to some but not, it seems, to a lot of others. Clearly not to Fender. In an everyday language situation someone looking at a bitsa bearing a Fender logo would assume it to be a Fender and therefore be 'deceived' into thinking it was a Fender. There are few consequences that make any difference to anyone except perhaps the owner of the bitsa may feel better about himself and his bass. As defined by criminal law it is not, however, a deception - which is the bit I latched on to but actually isn't (or shouldn't have been) the main thrust of the whole discussion. But, as soon as you add an element of gain into the equation it becomes a lot more serious than just a trademark issue - it becomes a crime.

No, Jon, it isn't rubbish. What you and Prowla are talking about is an infringement of law concerning intellectual property. It is categorically not a deception, which is the term being banded about, and which covered by criminal law. The trouble is that neither of you understand that the term deception has a specific meaning in law and that is what I was talking about.

OK last post and I'm out. If it is not the intention of the person doing that to make them believe it is a genuine item then NO it isn't illegal.

Theft act covers deception. No spurious argument on my part but a response actually based on a knowledge of law - something you clearly no have idea about.

No it isn't. As I explained. You do not know what you are talking about I am afraid.

No YOU were talking specifically about deception in your examples above and you are wrong.

Prowla, you are simply and plainly wrong. You may believe you are right but that belief is not based in fact. Go read the Theft act. Sec 15 covers deception. But, in a nutshell. Man makes a bitsa from cheap bits, sticks a Fender decal on it and sells it as a Fender - deception. Man buys a bass with a fender logo but is of the opinion it is probably fake. He sells it described as a Fender - deception. Man sells bass with Fender decal applied. Describes it as not a Fender - NO deception.

Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner!

The problem, as I see it, is that the OP believes he is right and on-one appears to be agreeing with him. Rather than thinking 'oh well, horses for courses' there is much digging in of heels and citing more and more extreme examples to show that Basschat is, indeed, going to Hell in a handcart by - yes - aiding and abetting criminals in this fashion. We are all sinners.

The magic word missing from all of this is 'intent' - surely? No intent to deceive (or recklessness as to whether anyone was deceived) , no hay una problema.

Where is it located and where is the destination? It is not beyond the realms of possibility that a tag team of Basschatters can transport it - its been done before.

I saw UFO a very short while after Schenker joined - before Phenomenon was released - at a small venue that was the basement of the Queens Hotel in Westcliff. I would think it was in 1973 as I was still going to the youth club and a bunch of us went from there to the gig. An amazing sight - patched denim flares, no shirt, Flying V wedged between his knees. He remains one of the best guitar players I have seen live even after all these years and he was only in his teens back then. Saw them again in London towards the end of the 70s when Schenker stomped off stage.

Your Yamaha would be ideal because of The Selecter.

Alice? Who the flip is Alice? Sorry, wrong song. Happy Christmas!

I'm sure I read somewhere he started off as Kinetosis Kevin?

That is sooo bad!!!

Queen of Clubs for disco, surely?

I picked up a bass for the first time in my late-40s, had my first public gig at 50. Now, at 60 I am in two bands. A new Bon Jovi tribute with big plans and a smaller pub band. Both equally good fun in their own way. Currently have a weak lower back, a hernia, torn rotator cuff in my left shoulder and a touch of sciatica down my right leg... Light gear, light basses is the way forward!

My classic rock band played most of your core set. Others we did that always went down well were Live and Let Die GnR Rosanna, Toto Here I Go again, Whitesnake Feeling Good, Muse version. Loved playing that! Don't Want To Miss a Thing, Aerosmith (surprising to see who was singing along with this in the crowd) Anything by Bon Jovi (we ended up morphing into a Bon Jovi tribute band) First encore - Sweet Child Of Mine. Cliche but got a huge roar every time as the ice cream van opening started.

If you get no nearer offers, I am just off the A13 in SE Essex between Basildon and Southend.

Makes perfect sense. Most, if not all, of my kit I have because it pleases me.