Count Bassy

Careful now. I'd hate to see this thread closed down.

Let's think about that one for a while.

Can Trump actually dismiss and replace Vance, or is he stuck with him since he was on the election ticket?

Having seen Trump over that last few days, constant changing of his mind, stumbling over his word, repeating phrases etc. I can't see him lasting the four years. Depend how much dementure they will tolerate. Unfornately when he goes we get Vance, which could be even worse. PS: I am not qualified to diagnose dementure.

I dare say that Trump has an agreement with Putin re the minerals, should Ukraine end up Russian.

Point taken. I've amended my post to say "Most of Europe".

What? They're going to take all the US fenders and Gibsons away? (Yes, I know it's spelt differently)

I think Trump & Mandleson have different interests in that direction.

No offence meant by it. However the USA collectively voted for Trump, and some proudly drive round with guns in their cars, so it does make it a very different place to most of Europe. Americans might well query how our europen brains work.

Not so sure, The democrates will not be impressed, and i'm sure that a lot of moderate republicans will also find this embarrassing. I am largely a Labour supporter ,in that I agree more of their policies than those of the other perties, but If I saw Starmer behaving like this then I'd definitely be embarrassed for my country. Mind you, we're talking Americans here, and who knows how their brains work?

I agree. I don't know what the Ukrainian people want. I guess that they want the war to stop, but possibly not at the cost of capitulating to Russia, knowing that Putin would come back for more in a few years.

I agree with some of what you say, but believe that Trump is the one who is humiliated by this. Someone actually had the nerve to say no to him and Trump went into meltdown. Not a good look for a supposedly powerful leader. Trump had set this up to be televised, thinking he'd have a walk over, but didn't. Re emboldening Russia, I am not so sure. Putin had the USA basically conceding everything he wanted and giving away nothing. By ruling out military help the USA have now made themselves less relevant to the situation, and Europe far more relevant. And Europe will (I hope) remain on Ukraine's side.

You really think that Zelenksy is the one humiliated here?

I've signed it even biglier

Full marks to Zelensky. It was clear who was the adult in the room. I don't want the war to continue, but what Trump was offerring was complete capitulation to Russia. I wouldn't be suprised if he has a deal with Russia for the minerals already lined up. Trump and Vance a a pair of Cnuts. I see that John Bolton, a republican, has said that this is a disater for the US.