Baloney Balderdash

First of all not sure whether this should really had been in the "Effects" sub from instead, but anyway this is the thread for posting and discussing "amp-less" setups, pictures, signal chain listing/description, and as as said discussion, all welcome. EDIT!!: This is getting silly, but I revisited my setup once more, so I deleted the original post and instead described my current setup, which I am pretty certain will be the final incarnation (or at least for now and for a foreseeable future). Mine is fairly complex because I by choice do not really use a dedicated bass preamp and cab simulator, but rather have these functions covered by a selection of multiple gain and EQ stages, which has the advantage of giving me much more flexibility in terms of tone building while still predominantly keeping it analog (in my case all analog except for the reverb and faux, EQ based, cab sim). However I am in the process of completely rearranging my pedal setup/board from scratch, because I recently went back to mainly playing my 4 string bass, tuned in F#1 standard tuning (that is 2 half steps above regular 4 string bass E1 standard tuning), played mainly using various finger picking techniques, rather than my Harley Benton GuitarBass, which is a take on the Fender Bass VI concept, also tuned in F#1 standard tuning (that is 10 half steps bellow regular guitar E2 standard tuning), played mainly using pick, and with an always on 1 octave up effect (using a TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini pedal for an effect somewhat similar to that of a 12 string guitar/8 string bass. Same is used for this new setup, but not as an always on effect, and using somewhat different settings, for one the 1 octave up effect is not quite as prominent, being dialed in a couple of dB lower, as well as there is a slight difference in the octave up output EQ of the Toneprint used), so can't really post any pictures at this point, but here's a signal chain description of the always on part that creates my core basic "clean" tone, the actual "amp-less" setup so to speak, which I at this point have put together and tested to the point where I am fairly certain that this is how it will actually also end up : Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass (with the stock P + J pickup pulled out and replaced for a single EMG Geezer Butler P pickup, wired directly to the output jack socket, tuned in F# standard tuning, that is 2 half steps above regular 4 string bass E standard tuning, and strung with regular Elixir Nanoweb coated nickel-plated roundwound hex steel core guitar strings of the gauges .080 - .062 - .046 - .036) ->> As the very first thing in the chain, right after the bass : ->> Mosky XP Booster (Xotic XP Booster V1 clone, run at 18V with both internal dip switches disengaged, which results in a slight bass/low mids boost, and beside that also adding saturation, emphasing and adding harmonic content, as well as altering the phase of certain frequency areas of the signal, all in all, giving a sense of extra depth, or extra, 3D, dimension if you will, to the tone) ->> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> (empty effects loop used as clean/dry signal mix) ->> [Loop A Return] ->|+|<- [Loop B Send] ->> Joyo American Sound (all analog emulation of a Fender amp style preamp/drive, dialed in with an about +3dB pre gain stage boost to a wide curve around the center frequency 800Hz, then a post gain stage about +2dB boost to a wide curve around the center frequency 400Hz, and finally an about -1dB cut to a wide curve around the center frequency 3.2kHz (looks like a Q value of about 1 or so to me for all of these EQ controls), and gain dialed in to just around the verge of the breakup point, also includes an analog filter meant to emulate a cab's high frequency roll off, basically just being a steep about 6kHz or so LPF, as well as there is a, much much lesser, slight roll off bellow about 50Hz or so *), always mixed with clean/dry {Mosky XP Booster} signal from parallel effects [Loop A]) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an about 50/50 ratio) }=>> Then as the very last thing in the signal chain, before the poweramp and FRFR PA speaker : ->> Zoom B1Xon (acting mainly as my main reverb unit, having a very subtle plate reverb stacked into a subtle spring reverb as part of my basic "clean" tone, but additionally also functioning as a simple faux, EQ based, cab sim, utilizing a dual band parametric equalizer model, set as follows: [Freq=12kHz Q=1 Cut=-18dB ; Freq=20kHz Q=0.5 Cut=-20dB], approximately mimicking a LPF set @ 3.6kHz -12dB/Oct, added after the main reverb, as well as to every other patch used on this unit) ->> EHX Black Finger (tube driven optical compressor, dialed in to deliver a very mild compression, which due to the fact that it compresses the high end slightly more than the low end also effectively boosts the low end slightly, the tubes driven to just on the verge of the breakup point) ->> ART Tube MP Project Series (tube preamp and DI, with the build in HPF, fixed @ 40Hz -12dB/Oct, engaged, and the tube driven to just on the verge of the breakup point) // ->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging // ->> Home practice // ->> Home recordings // : // ->> Band rehearsal/jamming/gigging ->> Effects Return (poweramp input) of a Peavey Solo Special 112 (160W combo amp, with the build in speaker disconnect and instead hooked up to a passive PA speaker) ->> The Box PA 502 (passive full range flat frequency response PA speaker with 1x 15" woofer/mids driver + 1.7" high frequency tweeter horn) // ->> Home practice ->> The Mix Mix 502 (mixer) ->> Sennheiser HD 380 Pro (studio grade, that is FRFR, headphones) // ->> Home recordings ->> M-Audio Fast Track (audio interface) ->> Reaper (DAW) // *) Frequency response of Joyo American Sound : https://www.tdpri.com/threads/joyo-american-vs-tech21-blonde-comparison-many-graphs.786013/ This gives me a very realistic/authentic, just around the breakup point, bass tube amp like response and tone, but while not being too obstructive to and letting the natural tone of my bass shine through, regardless of whether I use it at home, practicing though a headphones preamp and my studio grade (just meaning FRFR) headphone, record the bass DI'ed through it, run it into a power amp and a FRFR speaker/cab/PA at band rehearsal, or though a venue's PA system at gigs, which to me is exactly the greatest advantage of utilizing an "amp-less" setup, consistence of tone. The higher tuning of the bass allows for lower gauge strings which again makes it possible to obtain some of that harmonically rich piano like tone, otherwise not possible to obtain with the thick gauge strings that a regular E standard tuning would require on the just 28.6" scale length of this bass, beside also actually being better suited for the more melodic/riff based playing that I utilizes it for, that is in the context of bass and drums duo, as well as jamming just with a drummer (F# standard tuning actually being the traditional upright acoustic bass tuning used for bass solo pieces in classical music). For reference this was how my pedal board looked before this rearrangement, used for my Harley Benton GuitarBass : Also if weight is no issue I can warmly recommend the budget The Box PA 502, 300W passive PA speaker, for use as a FRFR speaker/cab, really amazing tone, very neutral faithful recreation of whatever you feed it with, and with an outstanding low end frequency response (better even than most higher end passive PA speakers), that both reproduces the low end of my bass/rig and sounds better than my much more expensive SWR 15" + 10" + Tweeter Horn dedicated bass cab. !!! Edit 2/Update !!! : Still haven't got around completely rearranging my big main board, but I got a NUX MLD Bass Preamp + DI (NBP-5) in the meantime, and pretty sure following is how the core of my "amp-less" setup is going to look going forward: !!! Update 3 !!!: Yet another rendition:

I love my Valeton Aquaflow Vintage Chorus, which to my knowledge is just about the only budget pedal ever made based on the legendary Boss CE-1 chorus circuit. It sounds amazing, but unfortunately is was discontinued a couple of years back, but you might still be lucky to find a used one for cheap. Otherwise the EHX Bass Clone is pretty amazing as well, or if you don't need a super lush wobbly chorus, it's hard to beat the amazing, but relatively subtle, aethereal shimmering chorus effect of the Boss DC-2w, or if on a budget the great TC Electronic Third Dimension Chorus clone of it. The Valeton Boss CE-1 based chorus kind of sit in between those two, it can get super lush, but don't really get super wobbly like the Bass Clone does on more prominent chorus settings, but rather maintain some of that aethereal shimmering quality of the DC-2 and the TC Electronic clone, even on more prominent settings.

Captain Beefheart - "There Ain't No Santa Claus on the Evening Stage"

One of my absolute favorite finishes for basses and guitars is matte black, in fact all up on the first place, shared only with metallic deep purple finish (of which I unfortunately own no basses or guitars). So this thread is for posting pictures of those of your basses that got a matte black finish! The only instrument I own in matte black finish however is my Ibanez Mikro Bass, which is currently my main instrument of choise, technically Ibanez call it Weathered Black finish, but it's basically just an open pore matte black finish. So here it is, my Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass, which I named "Dud Bottomfeeder", and which I added a Jack Skellington (from Tim Burton's "The Nightmare Before Christmas") skull sticker, two transparent lampshade knobs, and some respective red and green electrical tape (also known as insulation tape) to, as well as swapped the stock side mounted barrel type jack output socket for a regular front mounted one, pulled out the stock J pickup all together, replaced for a folded piece matte black cardboard, and swapped the stock P pickup for an EMG Geezer Butler P pickup, strung with Elixir Nanoweb nickel-plated roundwound steel core guitar strings, gauge .080 - .062 - .046 - .036 (using cut off ball ends from old bass strings to thread the strings through in order for them to be able to mount in the bridge holes and not slip through), to accommodate the F# standard tuning, that is 2 half steps above regular 4 string E standard tuning, I use for this just 28.6" scale bass :

I can't remember if I posted this more recent photo of my just 28.6" scale Ibanez GSRM20 neck + GSRM20B body Mikro Bass, that I named "Dud Bottomfeeder", but anyway here it is, possibly again : Equipped with an EMG Geezer Butler P pickup, and strung with Elixir Nanoweb coated nickel-plated roundwound hex steel core guitar strings of the gauges .068 - .052 - .038 - .028, tuned in A# standard tuning, as in 1 half steps above the upper 4 strings of a 6 string bass in regular B standard tuning.

My Mosky XP Booster, which is a clone of the Xotic EP Booster V1, does this nicely, at the very beginning of my signal chain in my "amp-less" setup, and then my EHX Black Finger as well, which is a tube driven optical compressor, though I use it with the compression practically being dialed completely out of the equation, essentially making it a tube preamp stage, with it's 2 preamp tubes, which by the way operates at proper high 300V voltage, driven to just on the verge of breakup point, towards the very end of my signal chain. I can warmly recommend both for adding saturation, enhancing and generating harmonic content, and adding an extra depth, or dimension if you will (I suppose this is what people speak of when they talk about 3D effect in terms of tone), to your signal. The Mosky can be had dirt cheap but is genuinely amazing, and actually appears to be of a quite sturdy build quality too, and the EHX Black Finger is absolutely amazing as well, though discontinued, but fairly frequently pops up on the used market, at quite reasonable prices, not exactly a budget pedal, but far from insanely expensive either.

In my defense how he described the tone of the Trace Elliot in the post I responded to initially it did very much sound like he was describing how a Trace Elliot sound with the pre shape button engaged, and very very far from how I would describe the tone of the older Trace Elliot amps when the pre shape button has not been engaged, in fact almost quite the opposite, I quote: "...absolutely gutless.... ...no low end as well as that endless void in the mids...". In other words I could simply not recognize how he described the tone at all from my personal experience with Trace Elliot amps, unless he was describing the sound with the pre shape button engaged. It was not just the fact of him not liking the tone, we all have different personal preferences, and thank God for that (that doesn't however make everything that doesn't fit our personal taste, I quote: "terrible", and one should be able to recognize the difference, especially as a musician with as much experience as he claims he has). At least I know now who not to trust when they are describing the tone produced by anything. But you are perfectly right I don't know anyone on this forum personally, but I was of the impression that it was not a private club, apparently I was wrong about that assumption. I just hope that everyone haven't put me on ignore at this point because they don't know me, cause else I'd rather not waste my time writing here.

Coil - "Christmas Is Now Drawing Near" (from the "Winter Solstice: North" EP) :

Well, Stanley Clarke is a very tall man with pretty huge hands and he prefers short scale electric basses. In the end though it is still down to personal preferences, much more than it's a matter physics, there are plenty of examples of short people with small hands doing well and prefering playing long scale basses as well, so really no way of telling whether your son will prefer short or regular long scale basses, before he has played both for a while.

User error! The old Trace Elliot bass amps sounds absolutely amazing, that is if you don't engage the mid scooping Pre Shape buttons, which you obviously did. If you don't like mid scooped tone, which I don't do either, then don't scoop the mids (in this case engaging the mid scoop button), simple as that! Not the amp's fault you dialed it in with a tone you didn't like, when it was perfectly capable at other settings that definitely doesn't sound like what you describe. Everything is crap if you insist on dialing in a tone you don't like.

Well, that is basically what Stanley Clarke does, so why not... He seems to be doing quite ok.

Gorm Askjær Trio - "Blodmånen Og Dig" (translated: "The Blood Moon and You") :

Better upper fret accessibility too.

I bet that they got the specs wrong and that the supposed tone knob is indeed really a pickup blend knob. Wouldn't be the first time Harley Benton and Thomann got the specs wrong in the spec list of their products.

August Rosenbaum - "Victim" :

Another vote for a Fender Bass VI type instrument. That is a 30" scale 6 string bass, but tuned like a guitar, just one octave lower, and with tighter guitar like string spacing.

I don't think it is discontinued, just sold out. Though I might be wrong. Rondo Music seems to sell them any now and then. Like getting a batch home in one finish, then sell out, and then after some months they get a new batch up for sale in a different finish. I just think this might be how Brice produce these, which kind of makes sense, since I figure it would pretty much be a niche instrument. Strongly considering getting one at some point too, so I keep an eye on Rondo Music's homepage frequently. A shame I missed the purple one though, but didn't have the money at the time to get one. Hopefully the next one will be black and I'll have the money while they are still in stock.

@lidl e 3 X Harley Benton PowerPlant ISO-2AC Pro Modular, that as the name suggests are modular, that is they can be coupled/chained together so that they effectively work as one big power supply. Not quite enough outputs for all the pedals, so some of them are daisy chained in couples from some of the outlets, it did help immensely on the noise though from when I had them all daisy chained from just two standard power supplied, and if I want there is room under the board for expanding with 2 more modules, one unit on each side of the exiting mounted ones. And yes, very satisfied with the board, which admittedly is a bit messy and could be in use of a bit more systematically organized wiring.

The sunburst finish one looks surprisingly amazing! https://harleybenton.com/product/mv-4msb-gotoh-sb/ Will no doubt grab one of these at some point. Also the person who complained about the headstock, as far as I am concerned the Harley Benton headstock shape looks far better than the Fender one, that is it actually looks great, unlike the Fender one. Also appreciate the much flatter fretboard radius to the Fender one, and overall look.

Harley Benton SpaceShip 80 :

Laurel is considerably harder than Hard Maple though and very verry close to being as hard as Rosewood (and about as stiff as Hard Maple): https://www.wood-database.com/indian-laurel/ Hard Maple: https://www.wood-database.com/hard-maple/ Indian Rosewood (which is the kind of Rosewood used as the fretboard for most basses and guitars, Brazilian Rosewood being rarely used, but also only slightly harder): https://www.wood-database.com/east-indian-rosewood/ Also I think I need to get this bass, but I'll wait till they Thomann get more color combinations available, the sunburst one looks surprisingly amazing: https://harleybenton.com/product/mv-4msb-gotoh-sb/ Edit!!: Ah, Thomann does have them all available, overlooked this :