Baloney Balderdash

As the title says this is the thread to flash those of your basses that are equipped with a tortoise pickguard! Used to hate sunburst finish, and especially tortoise pickguards, but after I got this Harley Benton GuitarBass (take on the Fender Bass VI concept, though, with its much flatter fretboard radius and fixed TOM style bridge, really having more in common with the Schecter Hellcat VI), that doesn't come in other finish option, it has really grown on me, and I actually really like how it looks now, at least on this instrument:

One that would be capable of running standard VST effects, and multi parallel processing.

I actually really like the visual design of these basses.

@barrycreed That's a matter of personal taste isn't it? I personally happen to love clanky and bright big piano/chime like bass tones. But if the person who asked the question doesn't like that, then no, probably not other single coil P pickups either then, they traditionally have rich upper mids and high end, the Quarter Pounder is just a little more extreme and with a bit more mids overall. Also I would think that since the pole pieces are much bigger on the Quarter Pounder pickup it would work fine, even with the Bronco's slightly more narrow string spacing (standard 19mm vs Bronco 17mm), pole pieces of pickups doesn't have to line up perfectly for the pickups to still work flawlessly, the magnetic field that picks up the string vibrations reach a good bit beyond merely the pole pieces radius, with regular single coil P bass pickups, which would have smaller pole pieces, you might be right though, maybe not so much. Also just to clarify to the one who asked the question, most short scale basses will have regular standard 19mm string spacing, with a few exceptions, the Bronco being one of those with a couple of mm more narrow spacing, namely 17mm.

I would personally stick to a single coil pickup, like the original stock one is, and would properly more specifically go for a single coil '51 P/Tele Bass pickup, and if you absolutely want high output then the Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounder single coil P pickup, which unlike all the other Quarter Pounders actually have quite a big mid content and isn't scooped at all, which I personally appreciate (perosnally I would go for a lower output, more classic voiced, single coil '51 P/Tele bass pickup though). If you insist on getting a humbucker I know that the Seymour Duncan Hot Rails Strat pickup is a quite popular pickup upgrade for the Bronco Bass.

Death To Everyone by Bonnie "Prince" Billy

Bridge tail piece string anchoring point to nut is about 82cm on the Harley Benton GuitarBass, that is about 32", so yeah 100cm is probably a wee too short to be able to reach and wrap properly around the last couple of tuning pegs for the higher strings. But the Daddario EXL157, gauge .014 - .018 - .026 - .044 - .056 - .068 , baritone string set will fit (the thinner gauge D'Addario baritone set will not, too short), and ought to be pretty much perfect gauges for A standard tuning on a 30" scale instrument, like the Harley Benton GuitarBass (I've seen a couple of YouTube videos where this set was used on a Squier Bass VI, which needs even longer strings, for this purpose exactly, that is A standard tuning, A to A). Otherwise I can warmly recommend having a custom set made by Newtone, they are even an UK business: https://newtonestrings.com/ https://newtonestrings.com/shop/custom-string-configurator/

If I was you I'd probably move the stock pickup to the neck position and install a Nordstrand Big Baldeman in the old bridge pickup cavity. Or, actually.... If I really was you I would make a middle position pickup cavity (traditional P pickup position) and just relocate the stock pickup there and call it a day, but that was not what you asked about, so...

At a very general basic, really simplified (and I don't think very helpful), level, yes, however different compressors in reality will react slightly different to different frequencies, might color your tone, and more advanced multi band compressors, or even just a compressor featuring some kind of pre compression EQ section, might be used as a tone shaping device as well, then comes the fact, and this even on a relatively basic level, that a compressor can be used to suppress or enhance the attack, or help increase of decrease the sustain, of your signal as well, depending on the settings of the various basic compression parameters. He also refuses to give the, in my personal opinion, excellent TC Electronic SpectraComp and Hyper Gravity compressors a proper review, I think basically, summed up, based on the fact that he, ironically, think TC Electronic are to not be viewed a serious/professional company, as if choosing not to give a pedal a review, but still choosing to list it just to declare you are not going to review it because you are butt hurt is acting professionally or can be viewed as a serious review. That said and otherwise, despite not agreeing with all his reviews (simply not humanly possible to stay 100% objective, so hard to blame him for that), I do actually think that homepage, Ovnilab, is a great resource for getting an overview of the different available compressors on the market's capabilities, pros and cons.

So I use my TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini for an effect somewhat similar to that of playing an 8 string bass, that is a bass with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings, and after a lot of experimenting, trial and error, I think I have succeeded at making a custom Toneprint that comes about as close to an authentic and natural sounding 1 octave up effect/tone as is possible by just using a simple basic polyphonic octaver and a minimum of EQ, without any more complex/advanced synthesizing happening, so though I would share it with you. The main secret is applying a LPF set to just the right frequency to respectively the input signal to the octave/pitchifter engine and then again another LPF set at just the right frequency to the pitched signal output, both for the sake of improving tracking, which in terms indirectly means less unwanted odd digital artifacts, and for the sake of directly cutting out some digital artifacts, which usually primarily will be in the upper frequency spectrum, but if the two HPF are set just right without compromising the resulted tone of the pitched signal too much. Mind it doesn't sound exactly like a guitar, pitching up your signal a whole octave with nothing additionally done to it other than EQ is always going to sound somewhat artificial, but close enough for it to quite decently work in a mix as a faux guitar (especially if you are going for an overdriven guitar) or faking an 8 string bass. Also expect it to sound most realistic on the 2 highest strings and most artificial on the low E (and eventual low B) string. So here we go (Faux Guitar/8 string bass custom Toneprint for TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini/Sub'N'Up): First load the "Deafult Poly" template, then edit it as follows : 1st tab (master levels/gain): Row 1 : -100dB :-: -100dB :-: [Wet Level Oct Up] (-13dB seems to work best for me, trust me it'll sound louder than you'd think, mind drive and EQ boost) :-: 0dB Row 2 : [Drive Gain Oct Up] (even if you want a clean octave up tone try and see how a bit of added gain works, 2dB gain seems to work best for me) :-: 0 :-: 0 2nd tab (equalizer for input signal fed to octave engine): Row 1 : LoCut = 40Hz (if octave up signal is too weak on low E set to 35.5Hz instead, or for 5 or 6 string with low B set to 30Hz) :-: Input EQ1 Cut Order = 2 Row 2 : HiCut = 3.55kHz :-: Input EQ2 Cut Order = 2 3rd tab (equalizer for 1 octave down output signal): Row 1 : LoCut = 20.0kHz :-: Sub EQ1 Cut Order = 2 Row 2 : [Bypass] 4th tab (equalizer for 2 octaves down output signal): Row 1 : LoCut = 20.0kHz :-: Sub 2 EQ1 Cut Order = 2 Row 2 : [Bypass] 5th tab (equalizer for 1 octave up output signal): Row 1 : LoShlv = 4.50kHz :-: +2dB :-: [Oct Up EQ1 Slope] (6dB Slope seems to work best for me (steeper slope gives a slightly brighter octave tone)) Row 2 : HiCut = 5.60kHz :-: Oct Up EQ2 Cut Order = 2 6th tab (modulation on pitched signal): No adjustments, that is Modulation: Enable = Off (though you might find that experimenting with adding a very subtle chorus or even vibrato to the 1 Octave Up signal might possibly help mimicking the slight intonation/tuning difference between the bass and octave strings of a real 8 string bass even more realistically, but mind keep it very subtle) 7th tab (knob assignments): Sub/Sub 2 [knob assignment] : assign to [Octaver - Drive Gain Up], and clear all eventual other assignments, set the range from 0dB to 8dB (0, 2, 4, 6, 8) )* Dry [knob assignment] : assign to [Octaver - Output Up EQ1 Slope], and clear all eventual other assignments, set range from 3dB to 12dB (3dB, 6dB, 6dB, 9dB, 12dB) Up [knob assignment] : assign to [Octaver - Wet Level Up], and clear all eventual other assignments, set range from -22db to 0dB (-22, -16, -14, -12, 0) )* If you got the regular big version of the Sub'N'Up pedal you might want to instead assign the "Sub 2" knob to control the Slope of Tab 5, Row 1, EQ, that is [Octaver - Output Up EQ1 Slope], otherwise in the above example assigned to the "Dry" output knob, and leave the "Dry" knob assignment to control [Octaver - Dry Level] Save the toneprint under whichever name you'd like and then load/save it to the pedal. You might get better results if you run a compressor right before the Sub'N'Up, otherwise keep the Sub'N'Up as the very first unit in your signal chain after the bass (except for an eventual tuner and/or buffer). If you try this Toneprint out please post a reply in this thread, letting us know how it worked for you. Other suggestion on how to achieve an as authentic and natural sounding 1 octave up faux guitar/8 string bass effect as possible is of course very welcome as well. Also I should probably add: The result might vary depending on the tone of your bass and how you otherwise have it EQ'ed, but for me at least this works exceptionally well, and sounds surprisingly natural/authentic/realistic. Using roundwound strings and having a fairly bright zingy unaffected clean tone with a lot of bite and snap, as I do, I believe does help the 1 octave up signal to blend in better and thereby contributes to it sounding more natural and realistic. Not having the 1 octave up signal dialed in too high in the mix (finding just the right balance) helps as well. I personally have the 1 octave up signal dialed in a bit lower than it probably typically would be with a real 8 string bass. Also note that if the primary purpose is to mimic a guitar it would probably be beneficial to split the signal and run two signal paths, one where only the 1 octave up signal gets processed, and a separate signal path for the "dry" bass signal, then eventually join them again, for instance via a Boss LS-2 or a dedicated mixer, whereas if the main purpose is to mimic an 8 string bass it would beneficial to run the joined signal through as many of the same tone shaping and otherwise applied effects as the "dry" bass signal (though just using the Sub'N'Up as is with the above explained custom Toneprint is absolutely capable at mimicking a passable second guitar decently without having to split the signal, just for optimal result when used as a faux separate guitar you should split the signal, to be able to process the 1 octave up signal further separately).

I simply don't agree, look at the Danelectro Longhorn 6 string bass, a 30" scale instrument meant to be tuned an octave lower than a guitar with guitar like string spacing, the first and original Bass VI instrument, which was made famous as the tic-tac bass that doubled the acoustic upright on countless of recordings, and which is what started it all and inspired Fender to make the Bass VI in the first place, it has a neck and a bridge pickup, and no middle pickup either. Music Man's now discontinued take on a Bass VI, which I even believe had a 45mm wide nut, also only had a neck and bridge pickup. And you can get beautiful clear piano like bass tones out of a neck pickup too, that are nothing like a Gibson SG Bass, refer to the 28.6" short scale bass I mentioned in a previous post, build out of Warmoth baritone parts, with a Seymour Duncan Rickenbacker pickup in the far neck position, that I once owned. I think your distinction is conceived, based on little other than marketing decisions and popularity, and has very little to do with actual reality. It all depends.

A HPF is your freind.

@orangepeelneil The tube in the these units I believe run at proper high plate voltage, 200V or something like that, tubes in pedals doing nothing is widespread and quite persistent internet myth, even on pedals that do utilizes starved plate voltage, where the tubes in such circuits will actually color the tone more, not less (a tube run at optimal voltage mean less coloration and needing more gain to clip, since that was the original aim for how a tube should work, stay clean and add as little coloration as possible, which is what optimal voltage really means). Also that the components are SMD is completely irrelevant to the quality, or that is the production quality will actually be more consistent and slightly less prone to unwanted noise, on the other hand it will be a lot harder to repair should a component fail at some point, that's about it, compared to hole through mounted components. Also the voltage of the power supply needed for a given unit means little, in this specific case, where it needs a 15V power supply, the voltage is ramped up internally, as it will be in most units featuring a tube, to about 200V or so. My Black Finger got a stock 12V power supply, but the voltage is ramped up internally to run the tubes in it at 300V plate voltage. As long as it is fed with sufficient Ampere ramping up the Valtage to whatever is a relatively trivial thing to do. Ignorance is a curious phenomena, it will make people believe and come up with the craziest, completely unsupported, theories. That said the actual stock tube in the Eden Glow Plug is pretty crappy and it would benefit from a tube swap for a better quality one.

Sorry for the spam but my question to Harley Benton about the conflicting information about the body and fretboard wood of the Harley Benton GuitarBass on their own homepage was finally answered by Harley Benton. The description on Harley Benton's homepage claimed it had a Nato wood body and a Macassar Ebony fretboad, while the spec list on the very same page claimed it had a Basswood body and a Roseacer (thermally treated, that is somehow bakes or roasted, Maple) fretboard. However my GuitarBass was unusually heavy, certainly a lot heavier than it would have been with a Basswood body, so that made the Nato wood, which is an extremely heavy wood type, seem plausible, but the grain of the fretboard certainly didn't look like neither Maple or Ebony, and Ebony further more seemed unlikely at the price point of this instrument. Well, so according to the answer I got from Harley Benton it is actually neither, the body is supposed to be a wood called Sungkai,. Not a lot of information on it to find on it on the internet really about this wood type, but compiled from different sources Sungkai is supposed to be a bit heavier than Mahogany on an average (that is to the heavier side of wood), with a hardness slightly harder than Poplar (that is to the softer side of hardwood, though still harder than Basswood), and a stiffness, that is elastic modulus, similar to Ebony (that is extremely stiff, which is good for stability), also it is supposed to look a lot like Teak wood, only a lot paler, almost white, and the tonewood qualities are supposed to be somewhat similar to Ash (that is to the brighter side of the spectrum, and with great sustain as well). Sort of fits both with the weight and how the grain and color of the body wood looks on my instrument , so seems that this actually likely is it. The fretboard according to Harley Benton's answer is supposed to be Purple Heart, which is similar in almost every aspect to Jatoba (not in looks though, somewhat a bit coarser grain, and untreated usually with a dark deep purple-ish brown hue), that is about as heavy and stiff as Ebony (among the absolute heaviest and stiffest of wood), a bit harder than Rosewood (that is to the absolute harder side of wood, softer than Ebony though, but considerably harder than Hard Maple), and the tonewood qualities is supposed be similar to Jatoba too, which is pretty balanced and neutral with great sustain. And the grain of the fretboard of my GuitarBass does seems to match this, definitely a lot closer than Maple or Ebony, only it will have had to have been treated somehow or dyed for it to be plausible, however other Harley Benton, as well as Ibanez, instruments with Purple Heart fretboards is almost a perfect color match to the fretboard color of my GuitarBass as well. So this piece of information as well seems very likely to be true. So all in all I think it is pretty safe to assume that current production Harley Benton GuitarBass Vintage Series, including mine, got a Sungkai body, and a somehow treated or dyed Purple Heart fretboard.

Something to make sure of before you order this Harley Benton JR-Baritone is whether it is 30" scale as the spec list says (both on Thomann's and Harley Benton's own homepage (762mm = 30")), or 27" scale as the description for this instrument on Harley Benton's own homepage says (exact same page as the spec list with conflicting information) : https://harleybenton.com/product/ja-baritone/# My guess though is that it would be the spec list that got it right, and that it indeed is 30" scale. It is also listed under the Vintage series of instruments, even if it clearly says Classic on the headstock in the pictures of it : https://harleybenton.com/electric-guitars/vintage-series/ , and to add to the confusion their JA regular guitar models are indeed part of their Vintage series. Not the only instrument on Harley Benton's homepage with conflicting information between their description and the spec list of it, a bit odd and frankly rather annoying and confusing.

I don't agree. I had a 28 5/8" scale 4 string bass, made out of Warmoth Baritone parts, and the Seymour Duncan Rickenbacker pickup in the far neck position sounded absolutely beautiful soloed, and very much like a Bass VI (really regret being stupid enough to sell it at some point). You make it sound like it's an objective absolute truth.

I can play chords perfectly well on my harley Benton GuitarBass tuned in F# standard tuning, and it sounds beautiful, but admittedly I do roll off some low end in my setup. Guess it depends on you setup and personal preferences and not least application, rather than being an absolute.

Yes, but it is 30" scale length, so could absolutely be used as a Bass VI. And with the thickest string I use for the F# standard tuning, rather then E standard tuning, being a gauge .080 string I am sure fitting it on this instrument will be no issue, for me at least. But yeah, the lowest thickest gauge low E string could potentially cause issues to get to fit, if you need to tune it to E standard tuning and want higher tension strings than I personally prefer.

Wouh! That looks amazing! Definitely need to get this one as well!

A P Bass I can get behind, though I do prefer a narrower fretboard and a reverse oriented P pickup, and Tortoise pickguard used to be on my top bass aversions list too. That is until recently at least where I bought a Harley Benton GuitarBass (their take on the Fender Bass VI concept), which only comes in sunburst finish with a tortoise pickguard, and it has actually been growing on me, as in now I actually think it is a pretty nice looking instrument, depsite the less favorite finish and the previous much hated tortoise pickguard, mind I would still have preferred a matte black finish, black hardware, and maybe a 3 layered white/black/blood red pickguard, but I can totally live with it as it is.

Bizarre for sure, but I actually kind of really like it. Like a piece of modern art. As for ugly, by far most "whale hump" single cut basses, only ever seen a couple of those that I actually liked the look of, otherwise they usually look like something that has been deformed by some sort of horrible decease to me, like suffering from elephantiasis at an advanced stage, also those kind of speckled/splashy/smeared color finishes, which gives me bad amateur abstract painter with absolutely no sense of aesthetics, or "fresh" mass produced 80's wallpaper, vibes, especially when the colors used are blue and yellow mixed, which seems to be a very common choice for some reason for this kind of finish, strangely enough most often seen on high end boutique basses, I also have kind of an aversion against very pronounced flamed maple top basses as well. To me the above mentioned looks like very bad and somewhat kitschy, in the worst possible sense of the word, taste, like wannabe artistic, but being a completely talentless absolute cliché utter failure at it. Like these: Especially the first one though. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I couldn't find a picture of the one that had me banned from Talk Bass for speaking my honest mind about it looking horribly ugly (it wasn't even owned by the poster, just a random image they found on the internet ), trust me it would have beaten any of the above pictured basses in butt ugliness, however that is even possible. Also this thread would have earned everyone participating in it a permanent ban had it been on the Talk Bass forum.

I use a very subtle compression to actually slightly enhance the attack and actually also overall tone and playing slightly as well. With a sufficiently long attack time this is what a compressor will do, let the transient through fully intact, then slightly decrease the level of the signal after the initial attack, enhancing the attack, rather than muffling it, and if the release time is set just right as well overall make the signal more equal in level as it fades, that is make for a more smoothly/gradually fading consistent sustain, and rather actually enhancing your tone and playing dynamics than limiting them. I don't really like compression either outside of being very subtly applied, the slight compression you get from overdriving your signal, and then in context of recording/mixing post production to make it sit better in the mix. The trick is not to overuse it, unless you want an obvious effect of course, and just use it to slightly enhance your playing and tone, rather than limiting it, by dialing in a relatively low compression rate, something like just 2:1 to 3:1, and with the threshold, attack and release set just right, that is respectively: relatively high/ relatively slow, something like 20 to 50 ms or so/relatively fast, something like 50 to 100 ms or so.

Depends if your primary incitament to be at the concert is to listen to live music or you are there to be entertained. Personally for me music should first and foremost be music, as in the artform music, and if it then also is entertaining that is a nice bonus, but not if it is at the expense of the actual quality of the music. Also I for one love when my favorite band comes out with something new.