Baloney Balderdash

Well, the clips of the real 8 string bass in the OP of that thread does sound quite synthy compared to the ones I've heard, but yeah you nail that sound pretty closely with the Mosaic. I am going for something sounding more like this though : And I think I am able to approximate that pretty closely with my Sub'N'Up. I'll record some clips when I get myself pulled together to do so, might take a few days though before I get it done. Actually my "fake 8 string bass" setup sounds really close, almost spot on, to the short bit with the demonstration of both pickups in humbucker mode here on the Haghström 8 string (starts at around the 00:25 time mark), but with the octave slightly more subdued, as in lower in the mix volume wise (though I can turn it up in a section of the recordings I make so you can hear it sounding pretty much like the snip of this video referred to), not actually really intentionally aiming to replicate the 8 string bass sound spot on, but using the same principle/concept to get a similar functionality, though while still aiming for it to sound as natural as possible (you should properly also know that I got my bass tuned to G standard, as in 3 half steps above regular 4 string bass E standard tuning, or 2 half steps bellow A standard baritone guitar tuning, though I guess that doesn't really change the fact that the tone I got dialed in sounds very similar to the snip of this video I referred to) :

Doesn't fit my personal playing style, but I love how the bass sounds on this track, and well, the track as such as well, the music video too for that matter : And then to something completely different, that fits close to my personal playing style preferences, that almost have become a cliche with how many times the hook bass riff was repeated perpetually in countless bass demos, love the tone though and love both the track and the band, again also an amazing music video : This too :

I bet Mc Gyver could build you one out of a broken tennis bat, the wire and magnets from the burned out motor of a propeller hat and a piece of discarded barbwire.

Kind of my point with writing: As for the rest I guess that is fair enough, to each their own.

Truly strange that two people can perceive something that ought to be relatively objective so differently. Totally diametrally opposite to my experience with those two units. I wonder if the Ricochet I got was somewhat faulty, though that still wouldn't explain why to me the default polyphonic octave up effect of the Sub'N'Up is about as natural sounding as pitching up your signal a whole octave without EQ'ing gets, and that with some very specific EQ'ing, via the Toneprint editor, you can get extremely close to a realistic real 8 string bass effect. Especially the attack, which is what goes wrong with most octave up effects, to me seems quite natural on the Sub'N'Up. I can't believe you don't hear those odd digital artifacts that I would think you would get, with the Richochet too, from the most upper frequencies of your signal being pitched up as well. Also the tracking is absolutely perfect using my bass and my Sub'N'Up Mini, so have no idea how the Richochet could possibly do that better, my unit certainly didn't, in fact quite on the contrary. We almost ought to do a recording each and post a thread together with a poll to get this settled, cause I have a hard time wrapping my head around this mystery.

The Zoom MS-70 CDR happens to be stereo (both stereo inputs and outputs), though you can't EQ differently for the right and left channel, if that is what you were looking for.

Well the Zoom MS-70 CDR, stompbox sized digital multi effect, got both a bass specific and a guitar specific fully parametric equalizer that you can stack up to 6 of in a patch. I say fully parametric equalizer but there are some jumps in the frequency bands you can chose from (but they are actually relatively close), as well as you can only chose between respectively a 0.5 - 1 - 2 - 4 - 8 or 16 Q value, the available frequencies lying between 20Hz to 20kHz, and differing a bit between the guitar specific and bass specific model, as far as I know being the only difference between the two equalizer models, finally you got a -/+ 20dB cut or boost at your disposal. No HPF or LPF, but if you know what you are doing you can fake that by applying 3 to 4 bands of parametric EQ'ing, typically having to use 2 bands of cutting with relatively low Q value, and then sculpting the slope where the cutoff starts by also boosting 1 or 2 frequency bands slightly (the right DAW VST parametric equalizer with a graphic representation of the parameters should be able to help you with getting a better idea about what you are actually doing). Works well for me, I personally use 4 of the 2 band bass specific parametric equalizers chained up in a patch for EQ'ing my basic tone, followed by 2 additional 2 band equalizers for a LPF. Even with the few limitations (fixed frequencies and Q values to chose from), you can really get surgically specific with this, which I found very liberating. I would think the general quality of the effects modeling on this cheap Zoom multi effect will not really be an issue here, since it is just equalization, and since the actual AD converter and processing resolution and bit depth of the unit is fine.

You might be right, I think it is actually a quite alluring thought and plausible that Digitech did something additionally to the circuit of the Mosaic, like for instance somehow EQ'ing the input signal to the octave engine and the output of the pitched up signal, to sound more naturally and realistically as real struck guitar/bass strings, since it is specifically marketed as emulating a 12 string guitar, unlike the Ricochet, which is supposed to essentially function as a classic but expression-pedal-less Whammy pedal. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to really explain our different experiences, except for perhaps the general fact that everybopdy's senses and perception of what they pick up doesn't work exactly the same.

I actually know of this version, and while this cover actually being a fine song on it's own, I don't think it's actually a very good cover, the original, in my opinion being far superior in any way, and as far as I am concerned the trip-hop twist not really working successfully to add anything interesting, but on the contrary only obscure some of the best qualities of the original to some degree. Kind of for some of the same reasons that I think Johnny Cash's cover version of U2's "One" is a much greater song than the original.

It didn't to me. I actually originally bought the Digitech Ricochet to do this job, but I didn't like how it sounded, though the biggest issue with it to me, which was actually determining for why I ended up returning the Ricochet and getting the Sub'N'Up Mini instead (in return also discovering that the stock 1 octave up sounding better and more naturally, and how EQ'ing helped getting it to sound even more realistic), was the tracking being considerably worse compared to the Sub'n'Up's, in my experience, effectively completely flawless tracking, as well as the latency of the Ricochet being quite noticeable (the Sub'N'Up got this same problem with it's octave down effect, but since I don't use that it's not an actual issue for me, and the octave up effect that I actually use having basically unnoticeable latency). In my experience there is no way around EQ'ing either the input or output of a signal digitally pitched up 1 whole octave, and ideally both, if you want it to sound as realistic as possible and get rid of the odd and quite obvious digital artifacts that this kind of processing seemingly inevitably will result in, which the Sub'N'Up offers an easy solution to, without need of complicating your routing and need of extra added pedals. Your experience obvious tells you differently, though I don't quite understand how it possibly can. You apparently not actually having tried the Sub'N'Up using the right settings in the Toneprint editor could possibly partially explain why though.

For me it would be a - bass to guitar emulator - version of something like the EHX BASS9 - guitar to bass emulator - pedal. Here's a demo of the EHX BASS9, in case you are not familiar with it : Currently I use a TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini as an always on effect, to emulate that 8 string "octave" bass or fake unison (just an octave higher of course) guitar like effect, and while I can get pretty close with the default polyphic octaver setting and some quite specific EQ'ing, via the Toneprint editor, of the dry input signal that is fed to the octave engine, as well as the octave up output signal, something that deliberately seeks to emulate a realistic guitar or 8 string bass effect for bass would be great, and I would definitely buy such a pedal if it came available on the market.

Interesting, definitely. But unusable to me, since what I use an octaver for it mimicking an 8 string "octave" bass effect, with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings, and the polyphonic octave up on this pedal is just way too synthy, to my ears even more so than the octave up on the EHX POG pedals, which also have that slight organ or synth like vibe to it. Which leaves me at, to my knowledge, the currently absolute best pedal on the market to do that kind of thing, namely the TC Electronic Sub'N'Up, in my case the Mini version, which default polyphonic octave up tone already is more natural sounding than say the POG octave up, and that with some additional quite specific EQ tweaking of the octave engine dry input signal as well as the output octave tone, which the Toneprint editor feature allows for, it is actually possible to remove as good as all odd digital artifacts, and get as close as it is even possible to a natural sounding tone with a signal that is pitched up a whole octave (without further modeling at least, just the basic digital polyphonic octave up function. Would love a bass to guitar emulating version of something like the EHX BASS9 guitar to bass emulation pedal). Also if what I wanted was the classic OC-2 analog octave down synth tone I would properly get the real one or a good clone, as, as some has already pointed out, the warpling, not perfect tracking, artifact that the OC-5 doesn't seem to have, unlike the original OC-2, kind of is part of that classic tone. Otherwise it look like a great pedal. But yeah, if you want to emulate an 8 string bass kind of thing, nothing currently on the market beats the TC Electronic Sub'N'Up, especially if you know how to use the Toneprint editor and how to EQ properly, and if you want the authentic classic OC-2 octave down synth tone the real thing would still probably be the way to go as far as I am concerned.

Amazing song from the soundtrack to the original The Wicker Man movie :

My main 28,6" scale 4 string Ibanez GSRM20 Mikro Bass (I do own a regular 34" scale 4 string Aria Pro II Laser Electric Classic, which used to be my main, an Ibanez 5 string GSRM25 Mikro Bass, both great basses, especially the Aria Pro II, and an extraordinarily crappy 30" scale vintage Egmond bass from the late 60's, too). Currently strung up with a gauge .095 D'Addario NYXL bass string and 3 D'Addario NYXL guitar strings (threaded through the cut off ball ends of bass strings, to not fall through the bridge string holes) of the gauges .070 - .053 - .038, and tuned G1 - C2 - F2 - A#2, 3 half steps above regular 4 string E standard bass tuning, 2 half steps bellow A standard baritone guitar tuning, or simply G standard tuning, and played through an always on TC Electronic Sub'N'Up octaver, blending in an 1 octave above signal with the regular bass signal, giving an effect similar to playing an 8 string "octave" bass, with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings. And this is how this beautiful, lowly, but very much beloved, abomination looks (mahogany body, maple neck, rosewood fretboard, a failed, and then later filled out (though not quite unanimously successfully either), attempt to drill () an extra far neck pickup cavity, various visual mods, a DiMarzio Model P P pickup wired directly to the output jack socket of the bass, and the J pickup from the previously installed EMG Geezer Butler P/J pickup set still there, though disconnected and lowered considerably) :

Mine must be the SWR Triad I, 4 Ohm, 400W bass cab, equipped with 1x15" + 1x10" speaker units + high frequency tweeter horn. The 15" speaker unit receiving the full range of the signal, and then a build in crossover making sure that the 10" unit mostly only receives the part of the signal that is between 100Hz and 5kHz, and that the high frequency tweeter horn then receives everything of the signal above 5kHz, with how much of this part of the signal is fed to the tweeter horn being adjustable via a build in tweeter attenuator. Personally I have the attenuator set at noon, which according to the manual is the "normal setting", effectively meaning an about -4dB cut of the signal fed to the tweeter. I use it for the musical project that has my main focus at the moment, a bass/vocals and drums duo, which music perhaps best can be categorized as a form of progressive psychedelic stoner rock, where I play a just 28,6" scale 4 string Ibanez GSRM20 Mikro bass, tuned G1 - C2 - F2 - A#2, as in G standard tuning, 3 half steps above regular 4 string E standard bass tuning, or 2 half steps bellow A standard baritone guitar tuning, and then beside other momentarily used effects (a heavy high gain distortion with a quite fuzz like quality, consisting of a Turbo Rat clone parallely mixed, via my Boss LS-2, with a Joyo Orange Juice overdrive stacked into a Boss MT-2 Metal Zone, having a big part to play), have the bass signal run through an always on TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini octaver, blending in an 1 octave above signal with the regular bass signal, using the default polyphonic octaver setting, but tweaking the EQ of the input signal of the octave engine as well as the EQ of the pitched signal via the Toneprint editor to make it sound more natural, giving an effect similar to that of playing an 8 string "octave" bass, with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings. Here, beside my Mikro Bass, is my Peavey Solo Special 112, 160W guitar combo amp, having it's build in 12" guitar speaker disconnected and instead hooked up to my SWR Triad I bass cab, only using the poweramp section of the Peavey, having an EHX Black Finger, tube driven optical compressor, acting as much as a fairly light compression effect as as a tube preamp stage, placed at the end of my effect pedals chain, then going into a Zoom MS-70 CDR, exclusively using that as a multi band fully parametric equalizer, utilizing 6 of the multi effect pedal's 2 band parametric bass equalizer models, then finally going into a Behringer MIC100 Tube Ultragain tube preamp, before going into the Peavey's Effects Return effects loop input : The SWR Triad I was one of the first real commercial attempts at making a full range bass cab, it's nowhere anywhere near flat response, but to me that doesn't really matter as I think it got just the right frequency balance as it is, with control of the upper frequency representation by the build in attenuator, as I mentioned previously, setting how much of the signal above 5kHz is fed to the tweeter horn. The low end of the cab is tight and articulated as far as I am concerned, and I guess the cab is fairly mid-rangy, which I suppose makes sense with the part of the signal the build in 10" unit is responsible for, that is everything between 100Hz to 5kHz, and having the 15" unit, as said receiving the full range of the signal, overlap a great deal of those same frequencies, which by the way suits me fine too, as I like a rich mid-range presence. Also, even with the tweeter horn completely off (since the 10" unit will still reproduce frequencies up to 5kHz without much roll off), but especially with the attenuator set at noon, which equals to an attenuation of about -4dB of the signal fed to the tweeter (5kHz and upwards), the extended upper frequency range, compared to say a regular 15" or even a 10" bass cab, gives the tone of the bass a certain light sense of openess or space to it, but seemingly without it causing any loss of sense of tightness, and without it ever sounding harsh in any way, even when using overdrive and distortion (mind though that the lack of perceived harshness may very well be due to me having sculpt the EQ so that it starts to roll off the top end from around 4kHz with a downward slope at about 9dB/Oct). To me this cab reproduce the signal coming from my bass beautifully, couldn't imagine it any better, and even though I guess this type of cab is especially well suited for how I utilize it at the moment, I would not hesitate a moment using it in the context of a more traditional bass setup as well. The´overall sensitivity of the Triad I cab is not really that impressive but still quite good with 98dB SPL @1W1M, and the frequency response spreads wide and deep with –6 db @ 37 Hz and 16 Khz. Here's a link to the original manual: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/621035/Swr-Goliath-Iii.html?page=17#manual (don't mind the link names the Goliath III cab, page 17, as is where the link leads, is the Triad I manual page) Only downside to this cab really is that it weights half a ton (80lbs, or slightly above 36kg, to be exact). Man it's heavy, and it's a bit unusual shape (it's deeper and a bit more boxy than it appears on the photo) makes transporting it even more cumbersome.

Yes, I have noticed you like posts to be kept as short and pointless as possible, so this one is for you: It got action and relief. Does yours too?

The Zoom MS60B has way more effects than the B3, cause it got upgraded with a new patch with a load of new effects unlike the B3, basically the same kind of quality though. The B1-Four got better quality effects, but fewer and with fewer editable parameters, but is about half the size of the B3. As for octaver, get a dedicated one, the ones build into multi effects are never good, I'd recommend the TC Electronic Sub'N'Up or Sub'N'Up Mini. The Zoom MS100BT is discontinued and basically the same as the MS60B, just discontinued and with fewer effects.

Just out of curiosity really, how do you prefer your string action to be, and what is the action and relief on your main bass (if you got one, otherwise about average of your most played basses)? My main is a lowly, but very much beloved, Ibanez GSRM20 Mikro Bass, with a just 28,6" scale length. I have swapped out the cheap stock pickups with some of higher quality, but otherwise I was lucky to get an as good as perfect bass from stock, well beside from the absolutely horrifying bad setup it came with, as well as the stock strings were pretty crappy as well. Measured from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the low E string the action is just about 1.9mm (5/64" =/~ 0.075"), and just about 1.4mm (1/16" =/~ 0.055") on the high G string side, with as good as no relief in the neck, something that perhaps translates to something like an about 0.2mm (1/64" =/~ 0.0079") gap or so between the top of the 8th fret and the bottom of the low E string when it is fretted at first and last fret simultaneously. No fret buzz whatsoever on any of the strings no matter where on the fretboard they are fretted when played acoustically with a light touch, though certain strings fretted at certain frets does result in a slight buzz when digging in a bit harder, but again only when played acoustically, when the bass is actually amplified there is absolutely no hints of fret buzz anywhere to be found, though still adjusted sufficiently low for allowing me to force out some clanky attack if desired. But I do kind of have an idea about this kind of setup being about as low as you can go before it starts to affect the tone negatively, to some extend choking the string vibrations, no matter how perfectly leveled the frets might be. Though Regardless if this idea is actually true or not I prefer to be able to feel at least a slight amount to resistance when fretting the strings, for me to be able to feel that I am actually playing, as well as giving me a slightly more focused awareness of the fretboard and my playing. Preferably, for the sake of easy comparison, measure the string action at the 12th fret and the relief at 8th fret, like I did.

Well, except if one is to trust the DiMarzio tone charge with a lot more mids, rated 8 in midrange, whereas the old Split P were just 5, slightly more bass with an 8,5 rating, versus the old Split P's 8, and slightly less treble as well, with a rated 5, versus the old Split P having a rating of 6. So not exactly the exact same. Here's the link to the new Relentless P on DiMarzio's homepage: https://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/standard-bass/relentless-middle And here's the link to the old Split P: https://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/standard-bass/split-p The new Relentless P also have less output and lower resistance than the Split P and all in all seems to be closer to a beefed up Model P pickup than a new take on the Split P, well except of for the blade humbucker part that the Split and Relentless does have in common. I could totally see myself getting a pair of these instead of my Model P, as said it seems like an upgrade with the output, low end and mids turned up slightly and as a bonus promissed to ve totally noiseless, which sadly can't be said about the Model P, even if I love the tone it gives me.

There seem to be a rumor that they are, but the wraps are the same material as regular nickle roundwounds, the cores are different, and the nickle wraps are wrapped closer together. If you do a Google search on "D'Addario NYXL fret wear" you will find a lot of people having picked up this rumor asking but even more people who debunks it based on their own experience. Too early for me to be able to say if they do or not from personal experience, but judging from the above search it seems like there's 1 or 2 claims of increased fret wear being the case, a lot of people picking up on this rumor, asking if it is in fact the case, but then even more people replying that from their personal experience that there is absolutely nothing to it, which to me makes sense, since the NYXL strings are still essential nickle roundwound strings, even if having a different core material and the nickle being wrapped differently. The nickle wraps is still what will meet the frets, and since it's wrapped closer together on the NYXL strings, giving them a slightly smoother feel than regular nickle roundwounds, if anything the opposite should logically be the case, that they perhaps would even wear the frets slightly less.

On a completely different note, your avatar image is from possibly my most favorite YouTube video clip of all times.

Wow! That's flipping beautiful! Really manage to turn that old worn out superficial pop tune cliché into an epic tale of deep existential failure and pain. That saxomophoneist hits a genuine artistic gold vain. No mountain of disasters will ever be big enough to stop him from sharing his truly unique artistic vision with the world! Go Sisyfos! I put all my faith in you! You are the shining sun that puts all other stars to shame!