warwickhunt

No fees but you have to pay due diligence as there is no comeback on the seller!

Appreciate the insight. However, it really is only ever going to be used for a 4 piece covers band and I don't think we'll scratch the surface of what it can do; the 18/20 would be massive overkill (for us). TBH a 12 channel analogue desk might suffice but for the extra initial outlay it makes sense to go this route.

Bill designs cabs and sells those designs, it would need someone in the UK to do the building... and distribution.

I 'think' one of those band members (who still owns that PA) is now in one of my band projects and I can tell you, he is having a proper grumble about the idea of 2 little 10's + little sub V's his big old monster PA! LOL

Yeah the £200 difference seems to get you a lot more features and flexibility. Saying that, we likely won't use a lot of that flexibility once it is initially set up. Some A&H uses may well use a desk like this with multiple bands and locations but ours will be the same line up in quite similar venues. I do like the 'idiot' set up whereby it auto sets input and monitors it + feedback suppression.

Yes, I think you see my dilemma and the balance between options are slim. My choice of mixer is probably leaning toward the A&H, more of a learning curve but greater flexibility. I'm also almost sure that I'll go QSC + sub, rather than x2 larger full range and no sub. The cost to the band will be diminished and theoretically it is almost as easy to transport 2 small tops and medium bin (the bin on a dolly need never be lifted higher than a car boot), than 2 larger tops. My band for the last 10 years has used a pair of 15" 7 series RCFs (with everything going through, for the last year or two) and it did OK but I was never happy with the vocal clarity/quality; part of my reasoning.

Absolutely but with consumer electronics being as cheap as this I'd envisage other frequencies will be migrated to and new Lekato (or similar) products will follow. I'm defo not saying that these units are the mutts nuts or of the exact same quality as say the Shure units... they aren't. However, if you are using them in pubs/clubs etc and you are ensuring you pack them away carefully after use, they do a job at less than a 1/10th of the price.

Sounds like a similar line up but we can't play the venues we do without at least the kick through the PA. I have the option to go without backline (IEM) which saves me transporting PA and backline but realistically I'll not put bass through the PA at small venues.

I use these and at the price it is silly not to! I get no notable latency (no worse than standing a few feet from my cabs if I use them) and I'm told you get distortion but tbh if you keep the various gain levels appropriate I don't hear it.

They would be great speakers but I was already 90% sure that my QSC 10's + a sub are the way for us to go.

Agree but the cheap 5.8ghz don't seem to suffer.

Yes, I was leaning to the 10's + sub option for these reasons but I did wonder if 15's on poles (no sub) might have enough 'bottom end' to do the band justice.

I had considered the 7 series but at £400 more between four of us, the 9 series seemed a better option. The band I've not long since left used the 7 series 15" with the vocal, kick, snare, bass and guitar all be handled without a sub, so I know it can work but I do wonder if my QSC 10's + a sub would be better.

I find myself in a position where I'm resurrecting a former band (pub rock'ish' covers); 4 piece vocal/acoustic, guitar/vocal, bass/vocal, drums... and we need a PA! Other than the pair of QSC K10's and a single RCF310 that I own, we have no PA. I'll say from the off that I've known the guys in the band for 30 years and they are 'friends' so I don't envisage fall out re. ownership as and when the band folds (they all have to). I now have to guide and advise the lads on what we buy. I've had a few thoughts and come to a couple of conclusions but it is always good to get fresh eyes/brains on my meanderings. I don't want to go the X12/16 wi-fi interface type 'desk' hence my preferred 2 options for a mixer. Speakers suggested by me are indicative of the kind of budget and quality that I am considering. Sub can not be overly large/heavy as someone is humping it in/out of the car at home. Guitarist has a boutique valve combo which he has to use but I'm happy to use my amp/cab(s) or go Pre/pedals/PA if need be. Option 1 (all new not using any of my gear) Mixing desk £500 (ZoomL12) or £700 (A&H CQ12) X 2 tops £800 (per speaker) (RCF 932 or other options) X 1 bin (optional) £750 (RCF 702 but open to other considerations) X 1 monitor £300 - option to get everyone to buy IEM and run mixes from separate outs on desk. Leads £300 X12 @ £25 Lights £280 4 bar Option 2 (using my 10" QSC tops x1 RCF monitor) Mixing desk £500 (ZoomL12) or £700 (A&H CQ12) X 1 bin £750 (RCF 702) Option to get everyone to buy IEM and run mixes from separate outs on desk. Leads £300 X12 @ £25 Lights £280 4 bar Setting aside the costing sharing, as that is something we'd need to iron out as I potentially (Option 2) own part of the gear already, I suppose I need to decide if a pair of good, full range 12" or 15" tops would be as good for 'most' of our pub gigs as using a sub with my QSC 10" tops. I'm trying to ensure I think through options, hence typing out my process. Views based on real life similar use, for PA cabs or a sub would be appreciated. Ta muchly!

I've an inherent distrust of units that rely on wi-fi to operate. Added to which, the band that this will be used with will effectively want to plug into and leave it to me to sort out and monitor mixes will be set once and forget. I like the idea that the A&H has auto functions which will set and monitor gain settings and feedback suppression (especially as I'm playing on stage when 'stuff' might need sorting).

Yep. I've not owned a 'full band' PA for 20 years but researching it this week, I can get a laptop sized mixing desk for £500-£800 that can do stuff that Pro studios spent £10,000's on 20 years ago!

Just when I think the Zoom L12 is what will do for us... I check out the CQ12.

VERY generous... you have a message (somewhere/elsewhere).

Zombie resurrection! I'm likewise thinking an L12 will suit my (zombie) resurrected band project; have you any further thoughts/regrets re. this Ped? I could go the full digi interface but I'd utilise 10% of the capability 90% of the time, this just seems to be the logical extension from a trad analogue mixer... as used by old folk!

That's cool, I'm not poking a stick and expecting a 'correct' answer. Everything you've said is about in line with what I'd do as/when we get a sub to add to the QSC K10s. We are looking at a good 12" as opposed to an OK 15" (RCF QSC... maybe FBT) but constrained by the physical size and weight as ultimately someone has to load / unload it at home (bodies to help at a gig). I've read enough around subs to get the gist when adding them to an existing system but the overarching info seems to revolve around placing subs at/near rear walls or rear corners, which is just not going to cut it in ANY scenario that I'm likely to encounter. The only options are really; A). centre of front edge of a stage/performance area, B). under a mid/top speaker or C). at a side wall (to take advantage of a boundary)... but the side wall is looking less and less like a viable option so it is A or B. I just have to ensure the distance to a wall isn't of a distance (iirc approx 7-8ft) which is going to cause a dip in a particular frequency that would rob us of the benefit of the sub. The joys of live sound.

As a personal monitor, a QSC K10 mounted on a speaker stand to the side of stage worked well for me. Plenty loud enough, great dispersion (especially at ear height on a stand), easy lift and the added bonus of 2 inputs; I fed one input with a direct feed from my pedal and the 2nd with a feed from the PA of the rest of the band. This way I got to mix a bit more of me without having to go via PA mixer. I can't imaging that I'd ever need anything much bigger unless on a 'big' stage and then I'd need to be relying on engineer et al. I tried the K10 on the floor as a wedge and it works well but so much better on a stand off to the side (added benefit that the drummer liked it there as well). I tried the Alto 10" before that and too harsh, also tried the RCF310 which was better than Alto but the QSC beat the RCF.

So placing the sub front left/right of the stage with a 10" mounted on a pole above (getting no reinforcement/lift from being placed next to a wall or corner) is preferrable to positioning a sub elsewhere near a wall/corner? I realise it is a single sub so I don't need to worry about length of wave et al but I thought the consensus was that a sub benefits from placement next to a boundary. BTW this is NOT for my acoustic duo, this is purely for a 4 piece band inc kick/snare mic'd.

I should say from the off that I've done live band PA mixing for over 40 years and most of my practice has been 'suck it and see', with a fair degree of success. However, as it has invariably been pairs of 15's on poles with no sub (Peavey passives through to RCF actives... and most stuff in-between). I find myself in a scenario where I go out as a low volume 'acoustic' duo with 1 or possibly 2 QSC K10s; no problems or more gear required. Enter, old band starting back up and my K10's are not going to do justice to full band; 3 vocals, kick, snare, bass and possibly guitar but they could work well if adding a single 12" sub but I'm having to factor in where is best to use it in an average room. All rooms are unequal is my starting point, so my example to follow will have lots of ifs and buts to be decided on arrival. I'm trying to decide 'figuratively' where might be the best place for a single 12" sub in a rectangular room, with band at one end and audience spread across the other 7/8ths of a room. It can't go behind the drums on a rear wall as the drum mics will be a mare. Centre of stage front is obvious position but it is nowhere near boundaries to benefit from that boost. Hence, could a side wall parallel with the front baffle of the tops be used? If it is placed on the left, anyone on that side will get excess in comparison to the opposite side of the room. So where to go?

Quick question... or not! Small to medium size venues, utilising a single 12" sub (to be determined and purchased) and a pair of QSC K10s on stands. Reference is often made re. 'rear/back wall' indicating rear to be the wall behind or where the band are setting up, leading to the assumption that front wall being effectively behind the last audience member (does that make sense?). If a sub (I'm phrasing this as per my band using a single 12" sub) is omnidirectional does that then mean that a sub can be placed either facing toward/parallel/out from a side wall running the length of a room? I'm aware that a sub can be placed anywhere in a room but practical purposes mean it can rarely be the wall or corner furthest from the band (behind the audience) and the wall behind the performance area would lead to the sub bleeding into a kick/snare drum mic, hence my musings on best offset 'side wall' placement.

I use an Electro Harmonix Small Stone phaser + a little chorus and I've been assured by other bassists that it pretty much nails the sound... but other options would work equally as well!