SumOne

I think most of the main issues of using a Laptop/VSTs live can be dealt with. In fact, a bit more searching online and it seems that quite a lot of professional level musicians do use it (just the list for those using Gig Performer is quite impressive). Latency & reliability As said in this review for Gig Performer, these aren't necessarily an issue nowadays - at least not with the right Laptop and software. Live interaction MIDI footswitches and controllers can easily be added. Roadworthyness The Laptop and interface can be kept out of harms way in a flight case next to the mixing desk or on top of the Amp/Cab. .....In fact, it is potentially more out of the way than when the 'brains' are kept on the floor along with the footswitches (which is possibly a bit of an issue for some of these other 'Laptop on the floor' units, or even standard multi-fx units, and relevant for the PSU vs IEC discussion) I've had pints spilt on right next to my pedals on the floor as the pedalboard is basically the dividing line between band and drunk dancing punters, but the Amp/Cab and mixing desk are out of the way. You see Laptops in DJ booths working flawlessly with MIDI controllers for hours in hot clubs - they are pretty reliable and robust nowadays, obviously if someone drops a pint on it it is game over, but that is also the case with most pedalboards and multi-fx units and they tend to be more in harms way. Sound As much as I'm a fan of new technology and feel that physical analogue pedals might be a bit of a throwback (I mean, some of them are basically the same things as 40+ years ago), I am yet to find a digital Octaver or Envelope Filter that sound quite as good as analogue ones, and digital distortion can be a bit hit and miss. I do find that Digital modulation, delays, EQ, Compression can be just as good or better than analogue though, and all the Amp/Cab/IR stuff pretty much needs to be digital. So I suppose that one is draw....but the digital stuff is only going to keep getting better. The biggest benefit is the almost unlimited potential for combining all sorts of different plugins that are being developed all the time (each potentially free, or much cheaper than a pedal), while the physical setup stays the same size. So I think most of the issues can be overcome (or aren't such an issue as they were a few years ago), but the one big remaining potential issue is 'cost creep'. Even if you don't count the cost of the Laptop and physical Interface, 'Gig Performer 5' is about $169 and that is just the host software that then needs plugins, a lot of decent Plugins are free - but the temptation is to spend on them and they can be pricey, MIDI footswitches are anything from £30 - >£300. So without being careful, it could quickly exceed the cost of a decent multi-fx.

That looks great. Gig Performer looks like the Windows equivalent. This reviewer likes it, and a key takeaway: "having spent a lot of time with it now, I certainly would trust it in a live situation. Which, speaking as a largely hardware‑reliant dinosaur who’s had his fingers burnt by software on stage before, is quite something. Gig Performer is unusual, but it’s exceptionally good at what it does. With laptops as powerful and relatively affordable as they are these days, it could be as good a reason as any to commit to a software‑based live rig." https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/gig-performer-4

Nice! Yeah, with that and the Paint Audio device, and generally the performance and reliability of Laptops improving I reckon VSTs used live is going to become more of common thing.

I suppose if I didn't have the Laptop or Interface then it wouldn't be a good financial or practical consideration compared to multi-fx, but seeing as I've already got them and already use them at home it is a lot more appealing. I have just spent about £10 on 'Bassment' VST (Black Friday sale) which is good for including a lot of Bass fx into one vst that has low latency. It seems pretty decent for live use: You wouldn't want to muck about editing it live, but if you needed to then everything is on one single screen, and you can just switch between presets (or have it as 'always on'). EDIT: After a bit longer with the 'Bassment' VST, well, it's okay I suppose - but I'm glad I only paid £10 for it. I might need to dig a bit deeper, but for example - I can't see how to set threshold for the Compressor (and it doesn't have things like ratio etc), most of the modulation just doesn't sound very good, auto wah doesn't seem to have a sensitivity/threshold control, I have much better individual EQ, Drive, Compression VSTs (free ones). What it does do well is having everything all in one low latency VST, all on one screen at a time, so I suppose that's worth £10. Still though, Interface + Laptop seems quite a compact and almost limitless setup in place of a pedalboard. It seem the direction lots of other things have gone. I dunno, will try it at a band practice and see if it is worth persuing. Although I suppose something like a cheap Zoom multi fx would do the same job just as well - or better.

Thanks, all great points. I think you are right that a multi-fx pedal will be a cheaper and more convenient option - what with them basically being a small computer with software and hardware specifically designed for the job. I don't have a Mac, but do have a reasonably new and powerful gaming Windows Laptop that has dealt with all the DAW and MIDI controlling stuff (the 'brain' for a Rane One DJ controller) and home use of Bass/Interface/effects without fault, it generally lives in Aeroplane mode and is pretty much exclusively set up and used for music stuff. I've just remembered that I have an Akai MIDImix that I have used with DAWs before to basically have volume sliders and 3x parameter controls for each channel, it also has mute switches for each channel. Not ideal for live Bass live use as the on/off would need to be pressed by hand, but I'll give it a try to see if stuff works in theory. I tend to have most of my pedals always on anyway, or just on for a whole song, so perhaps pressing the mute button on the MIDImix might work okay and it could live on top of the Amp perhaps. Latency looks to be 4.1ms in and 4.5ms out, but I suppose a lot of plugins will add to that so it could become an issue. (Edit, I've got it down to 5.3ms: 2.8ms in/2.5ms out with no issues). Making gig proof would need some thought, I assume the Laptop and Interface could go in a flight case I have and that could go on top of my Cab, then they'd only need power and audio cables in/out. I'd still keep a separate tuner pedal on the floor. But, yeah - as you say, there are probably easier and cheaper and more reliable ways to go about this!

I've recently realised that Laptops and software are now powerful enough to have no noticeable latency (mine looks to be 8ms) or glitching for playing Bass live through them via an audio interface to apply digital effects. It has been a bit of an eye opener as to how potentially game changing and cheap it can be (apart from the Laptop part), a decent enough audio interface like a Focusrite or Universal Audio Volt for about £100, DAW like Reaper for free (well, technically it is a trial that lasts forever), big choice of free plugin software, and it can sound great - I've been mucking about with an Ampeg SVT Plugin and Tape Echo (both free with the Volt) and a free Compressor and it all sounds as good as anything I've ever been able to achieve with expensive pedals (including Broughton SV-Pre, and Boss RE 202, Empress and Cali 76 compressors). And a massive reason I'm singing it's praises is that I pretty much plugged in and it all worked intuitively, no faff. If feels like it might be the future. I don't have a way of controlling virtual fx on/off with footswitches but I assume that is simple enough with a midi controller using USB direct to the Laptop (or the Volt has Midi in/out). Controlling the parameters could be more tricky and need a more complex midi setup though. In some ways it has fewer links in the chain than using pedals. It is just Bass > Interface > Laptop > Interface (interface to Laptop and back used a single USB cable) > Amp, so not many cables or 'moving parts' and as long as the Interface and Laptop are reliable then all good, the hardware feels pretty solid (I've got a Laptop that has 'toughness' as a selling point, and the Volt feels as tough as any amp or pedal I've owned). With Laptop and software technology constantly improving I assume it is only going to keep becoming a more attractive option for live use. I haven't had any issues with this Laptop system at home, but then again, you definitely don't get your fuzz pedal overheating or asking for re-logging in, or requiring a software update half way through a gig! Has anyone here taken the plunge and used this system live? Apart from the Interface aspect of Bass analogue signal being converted to digital (and the small amount of latency in doing that) I don't see it as being technically very different to people using a Laptop and Midi controller (DJ or Keyboard) live - and that seems to work for a lot of people that rely on it for live performances.

The FI and C4 are the two to go for ....but you can also get some great synthy sounds in an analogue way by combining octaver, envelope filter, fuzz, and potentially with other pedals like chorus and delays. I expect you could get an alright 'give me the night' bass sound just with a down-sweeping envelope filter. I prefer that simplicity, especially live. I mean, look how long the FI and C4 threads are with people running into technical issues that seem more akin to computer programming than playing Bass. It isn't rock n roll! In contrast, there aren't many technical 'how do I turn on my envelope filter and fuzz pedal' threads.

- Drums keep people marching/stomping, they're for the feet. - Vocals are the face of the music, almost literally, as you look at the singers face as they use their voice to convery stories and emotions. - Piano and Guitar and other instruments that play melodies are for the brain and convey emotions on a more abstract level. - Bass is for the hips and groin! (to paraphrase Suzi Quatro). It gets people dancing rather than marching. .... So in my book the Bass is largely a supporting instrument. To mix my metaphors: It's the cement that holds the building together...not always noticeable when doing its job well - but people notice when it isn't, it is not the beautiful building facade that melodic instruments are, it supports them though. Bass even sounds 'heavy' compared to other instruments. If you've only found one bassline that you like, perhaps more melodic and emotionally expressive instruments like guitars or pianos would be more your thing? I mean, you don't get many harp players complaining their instrument doesn't get people stomping their feet, or drummers complaining that they find it hard to convey dream-like whimsical emotions.

... but then again, being a 'YouTuber' doesn't necessarily qualify them any more than anyone on here. They might well have been spouting nonsense on the internet themselves, potentially they just like the sound of their own opinions presented as fact even more than forum posters!

And 'inspired by'

It says 'Demonfx' on it, that's a poor counterfeit!

I suppose though, they are at least being honest about it being a copy and not the original, they give it a cheeky different name. They could just as easily directly copy everything, it'd actually be easier - like the Louis Vuitton bags on sale at Hounslow West market.

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. They don't care enough to respond or comment to any responses, and responses won't change what they do. That's fine, we're all just spending a bit of time to shoot the breeze and shout at clouds.

My worst is ACS IEM (and an Xvive wireless system, but at least I can sell that). However, I have ACS pro 17 earplugs and they are one of my favourite purchases! I don't know if it's a fault, I used the same mould, but the IEMs don't fit well. They are uncomfortable, don't reproduce Bass well. And even if they did I don't think I'd use them - I use an Amp/Cab and our Drummer isn't mic'd up, so I'd need to go to the mixer (easy enough) for Bass to IEM, and mic the drums, or get room mics to get the monitoring. And if ditching the Amp/Cab woud need to beef up the PA. It all feels a bit like adding complexity and cost where the setup with earplugs and monitor speakers (that the drummer needs anyway as he doesn't use IEMs) and Amp/cab worked fine. I think if the whole band used IEMs and PA it might be a different story, still though - I'd need IEMs that fit/work better to properly hear the Bass.

F#ck you! 😁 For the sake of disagreeing: Asking 'how do I get better' on an online fourum is probably quite a 'shoot the breeze' sort of question. Nobody would really expect there to be a short universally agreed silver bullet answer (apart from perhaps 'practice more!'). Debate is good and interesting, it needs a certain level of disagreement.

I've now tried out the Lekato WS90 (£48 via Amazon) at home and in a band practise and it's good, easy setup, not a noticeable change in tone, I can't notice latency and there haven't been dropouts. The band also had two wireless mics and three sets of IEMs running and there was no interference. It was quite liberating being freed from being tethered to the pedalboard/amp in a rehearsal room, and is even quite an improvement for home practise being able to freely move around a room without considering a cable. Going through a fuzz pedal set to high gain there definitely is noise added that's noticeable when not playing - high pitch white noise and some 'squiggly' sort of sounds like radio tuning, whereas the cable adds a different lower pitched 'hum' grounding sort of noise with the same setup. I wonder if having a Passive single coil Jazz Bass with a transmitter right next to it and not having a physical audio cable interferes with what the pickups 'pickup' and the grounding, and if that the case for all wireless devices? It isn't a big deal for me - I can't hear any difference when not going through the fuzz set to high gain, and the cable adds just as much noise - just different, and I've found a lot of high-gain fuzz pedals are picky about the signal they receive: what else is in the signal chain - buffered or not and how they are powered etc. and noise gates are useful for them it it becomes an issue. The noise isn't noticeable once going through an Amp/Cab and playing with a band, and it isn't noticeable when not going through the fuzz set to high gain, but anyone particularly sensitive to added noise might not like it. It doesn't give the impression of being the most 'road worthy' and sturdy thing though, a bit flimsy compared with something like the Boss WL-20 that I used with the Waza-Air headphones, so for now I will stick with using a cable at the gig this weekend. I'll give the Lekato a go live if no issues after a few more rehearsals though, and I think it would be useful even if just for standing in different places during soundcheck. AliExpress are doing them for £24 including postage. But form what I've heard, ordering from them isn't without risk!

The only correct way to do a medley:

Maribou State, Blackoak. 😍

I thought the Space 5 sounded good as it was. Granted, it doesn't sound as characterful as things like P or J bass or a Stingray. I wouldn't hear one and say 'that sounds like a space 5', it didn't sound at all bad to me though. The Space 5 is seemed pretty close to what all modern active basses with pickups in those sort of positions tend to sound like to me. And having even stable tuning, small, lightweight, nice neck, well balanced etc. makes up for that. I did sell it though! But that was party as I only needed a 4 string and I find them easier to slap, and partly as I like the character sound of passive single coil Jazz Basses. As it is quite a 'clean' sound, rather than changing on-board preamps (or pickups) I've usually found it easier to use preamp pedals, different EQ, or use different strings and compression to change the sound character. Being 'muddy' and not enough 'snap' are can be a big combination of things - but I'd have thought compressor, strings, playing style, setup, preamp pedal and Amp/Cab, and EQ are major parts of that, more so than the pickups or onboard preamp (which as you say, have made little difference with £300 of new ones). The pickups aren't in unusual positions, scale length is standard, and as far as things like the fretboard and body/weight of the instrument making any difference, well, that's a big can of worms but personally I think it'd make very little difference. But yeah, if you are after a particular character sound like P, J, Stingray, then I think that is mostly down to the positioning of the pickups and no amount of changing pickups or preamp will really do it.

I know we're sort of shouting 'advise' and arguing together while the OP has walked off (I can picture it in a cartoon where someone asks a question, and everyone crowds around shouting over each other, not noticing the original person quietly walked away long ago).......but that's not gonna stop me joining in! Some music Theory is well worthwhile and goes a long way, but I'd say that reading music is generally a 'nice to have' for Bass, especially if you are doing what the majority of Bass players do - play rock/pop etc cover versions or originals. You won't see many of those Bass players standing there live reading sheet music. It's not the case for all instruments, there's good reason that Bass reading has developed Tabs, and Piano has not. I mean, for the bands I've been in it is the expectation that you learn the songs/basslines to play live without reading any notation, nowadays you can do that by listening to the recorded music, online tutorials, tabs, chord charts etc. to help you memorise, whereas in the past, written notation was the only way to get it communicated (or hearing others play live and memorising). So sure, it would be great to sight read music, but I wouldn't say it is a priority for most Bass players. Piano players (who probably play at least 10x the notes of Bass, and more variations, so need notation as it's too hard to memorise), or Bass players playing in Theatre shows just thrown into it with no time to memorise it's a different matter though and is pretty much essential. Anyway, my advice (shouting at cloud!) would be to nail the timing (and locking in with a drummer that might not keep perfect timing!). The temptation is to watch flashy Bass players on YouTube doing solo stuff with 1000 notes a minute, it looks good in that context, but in a band context it's over the top and you rarely see players doing it, Bass is a supporting instrument - part of the rhythm section at the back, so you've gotta have the rhythm! If 1000 notes per minute solo spotlight stuff was my thing then I'd play a guitar. Nowadays, I always practice to something to keep timing - metronome, drum track, band, recording etc. And yeah, wherever possible, play with others (fnarr fnarr).

Not a Black Friday deal as such (and not Bass!), but for anyone into Metal/Rock/Punk Drums (IR, Samples, Midi files) Ugritone have a big closing down sale. https://ugritone.com/collections/farewell-tour I've bought some and they are decent.

Nice one, I'll give the Lekato a go. For £48 (and free Amazon returns) I'll be happy if it's good enough for home and rehearsals for that freedom to un-tether myself from the pedalboard/amp. If I take to wireless and feel the need for something more reliable for live use then I'll upgrade.

Yeah, my justification is that something like the Ibanez 5 band Para EQ is more precise then my Amp EQ (Ashdown RM 500), and better than the EQ on Amps I use in rehearsal rooms, and for live stuff I'd prefer something I can immediately see and adjust rather than multi-fx menus, and for home recording it is nice to be a bit more hands-on rather than using EQ on VSTs.....but all of that is fairly weak justification, the reality is I don't really need an EQ (or preamp) in pedal format, the real reason is I like getting shiny new toys!

I've seen good reviews online for the Lekato WS90 (5.8Ghz) and can get them from Amazon (easy returns!) for £48 so I'll probably go for that, or have you noticed the NUX being significantly better? I like the look of things like the Boss WL50, but it is about £100 more expensive and 2.4Ghz, or the NUX B-8, but that is £200 more expensive and 2.4Ghz....so I think the Lekato seems like a winner, especially as four others in the band use 2.4Ghz wireless so it is probably getting crowded. Or money no object I'd go for the Sure GLXD16+....but I can think of lots of other things I'd prefer to spend that extra £400 rather than the luxury of no cable.

Yeah, it's sounding good. I always like Dennis Bovell. Available from 15th November.