TimR

[quote name='archie_the_cat' timestamp='1501357780' post='3344273'] OK, so that’s the first thing then - it’s fretless and played slap. But I’m assuming that’s not the clean sound, straight out the guitar. How is it processed? [/quote] They recorded it and then it's played backwards. Just the break. You can't really replicate it.

There are at least three examples where the band has done the gig against their better judgement and the result has been as expected. I know at least three band leaders who ask some very detailed questions before agreeing to do weddings. Where is the bar? If there is a large room with a bar adjoing the dance room, then it's a no no. What age group are they playing to? If it's a summer wedding at a hotel with a large seating area outside, can the band set up in a marquee? I've played at a couple of weddings where the band have been playing to a hot sweaty empty room with the doors closed due to noise limitations, while everyone else is outside. These are all things that can be avoided and are part of the musicians armoury and control.

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1501353191' post='3344247'] /\ This. You can not always know what audience will turn up, no matter how pro you are. [/quote] That's beside the point. I agree it happens once in a while but there are things you can do to avoid it happening. If it's happening regularly then it's not the audience.

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1501272176' post='3343800'] No, its just the wrong audience for the wrong band. Could be the promoters fault. Its getting the right band in the right place, nothing to do with being un professional or poorly prepared. If you are a well rehearsed Prog Rock band or a great modern Jazz outfit it would be difficult to wing it for a funky dance crowd. Or vice versa. Just cos the room empties does not always mean the band is not good at what they do. [/quote] Of course it's the band being unprepared. They haven't done their research. There's so much more to being in a band and playing music. You can't blindly follow the promoter. Ask the questions. Look at the bands the venue usually has in. Ask the venue if you think you'll go down well. A lot of musicians are lazy (as Blue says), they just want to play the music and not get involved in the marketing side. Someone said, either upthread or on another thread, "there's loads of musicians better than Ed Sheerhan, he's just lucky he's got a decent marketing team" or words to that effect. It's not luck, he's working with his team, listening to them and talking to them to decide what works. Anyone who thinks that they can just play good music and be successful isn't living in the real (modern) world.

I think the writing is on the wall when someone says "I only play from sheet", sh could have said "I normally play from sheet but I'll have a go." Shows a bit of interest and leads on, an open answer rather than a closed one.

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1501267510' post='3343759'] That could also be down to song choice/genre etc. You could have a great Prog Rock band, but if the audience want to dance rather than listen they could walk. Horses for courses. Not always down to poor musicianship. [/quote] In that case you still have to up your game. You're not doing what the audience want. You have to change something or continue to play to empty rooms. Could be as simple as being more choosy about your venues but it's all part of musicianship and knowing your audience.

Who is going to transcribe all the music for her?

You'll soon find out if the punted notice or not. They'll stop coming to your gigs. They'll walk out before your second set. You'll stop getting bookings. Even a band that plays for free won't get rebooked if they're not entertaining the audience.

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1501101367' post='3342584'] The only problem with all this planning and expenditure is.....its the music business, its art. You can have all the gear and all the musicians in place, but if the gig promoters and punters dont buy into it you are sunk. Oh, and 100k in debt. If you have the songs, on demo, and the music business likes them, everything else follows. [/quote] Quite. I'd limit any project to 3 months. If it's not flying by the middle of the second month I'd be looking at an exit strategy.

Funily enough they're talking about Brand X in the other thread. Phil Collins is an awesome drummer, but listen to him playing on any 80s/90s Genesis and you'd be hard pushed to put him in the top 100 drummers, let alone top 10. Listen to some 70s Genisis and then listen to some Brand X and it'll change your mind. 80s/90s Genises - less is more. 70s Genisis - very tasteful licks where required. Brand X - amazing technical playing, very busy, lots of overplaying, a noise unless you love Jazz Fusion. Which is a somewhat acquired taste. Same man.

[quote name='Monkey Steve' timestamp='1501087309' post='3342413'] start from where you want to get to and work backwards: It's not "I've got $100k, how far will it get me?" it's "I want the band to be playing X nights a week at Y sized venues, getting paid $Z, how much investment do I need to get there?" It's going to be the interaction between X, Y and Z that sets a lot of the rest. And to find out realistic numbers you're going to have to do a lot of market research. [/quote] Yes. When you start a project, you have a plan and then work out how much it will cost, whether it's viable and then trim the plan to suit.

'Within' a week...

It would have to be a tribute band. Targeting large clubs. A year would be far too long. I'd expect professional musicians to be up to speed with a two hour set within a week of whole day rehearsals. Financially you'd need enough money to pay for a solid week of rehearsals, rooms and musicians. I'd be expecting to hire a PA in for each gig if required otherwise I'd expect the venue to have PA. Couple of hundred quid for stage clothing. 5th man would be sound engineer. 1st gig would be a promo gig, photographed, videoed and sound recorded. £2k for production of materials (video, website, etc) from the gig.

Even Billy Sheehan and Marcus Miller play quarter note roots in some tunes. .

[quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1500847054' post='3340635'] I always thought Eastbourne was for retired wrinklies, and that it was yob free because of the said wrinklies [/quote] I was there a couple of years ago. It's quite a vibrant place, even in late October. I was surprised.

Certainly I don't know many bands that are playing 3 or 4 gigs a weekend for free.

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1500898882' post='3340901'] ... I have even been known to <gasp> play notes in the verse of 'all right now' [/quote] This is exactly what she means. When you come in at the chorus the whole song gets a massive boost. I have purchased a cowbell specifically for this song so I don't look like a spare grinning idiot during the verses.

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1500898882' post='3340901'] There are different styles for different players, as we noticed in the conversation about Chic at Glastonbury and how many people didn't like the bass player playing more notes than he was allowed. For me the bass has to be there and it has to have the presence of all the other instruments. Yes it has to form the bedrock of a song and interface between the drums and the melody, but beyond that I want to hear it and I want to be entertained by it. There is definitely a place in music for bass players playing roots and fifths behind a group and I am not looking down at that. Some people want to play that and some people want to hear that, but I don't want to be that bass player and frankly don't really want to listen to that bass player either. I have even been known to <gasp> play notes in the verse of 'all right now' [/quote] It's not an either or situation. The trick is to find the balance between melody and pure bass. I believe it's called harmony.

What they're talking about there is overplaying. Lots of inexperienced players will add fills and runs and make lines too busy in an effort to make lines stand out and be noticed. Usually ending up with a bass line that tramples all over the rest of the instruments. It's not confined to bass players either, drummers who add fills at the end of every 4 bars, guitarists who widdle away over vocal lines. There's a lot of it that's unnecessary. This is the job of a producer, to decide what should be added and just as importantly what should be left out. It's why a lot of the top producers are ex-bass players, they seem to be able to hear the track as a whole and understand how arrangements should work.

[quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1500826689' post='3340415'] if ya want them punching the air, and have everyone and i mean EVERYONE singing along, try this.. It will be the diamond in your set.. are you ready.... ,,,,, ,,,,, ,, Bob the builder. Yea... i knoowwww. iv seen it with my own eyes and........... it was a rock band if you can get some hairy biker with leathers and triumph tats singing that, then you really are a true musical artist Also... if you catch them on vid singing along.... well... kaching........ think of the bribe money [/quote] We used to do the same with Postman Pat... ...without the bribes of course.

What you're talking about is phrasing. If you had a conversation with someone, each word might be the right word, it might be exactly in the right place but if you don't put the right infection on each word, it will sound dull, it even might not convey the right meaning. Music is usually broken up into 2,4,8 or even 16 bar phrases. Concentrate on learning a tune phrase by phrase, sing it to yourself and get the feel for the rhythm and the accents before you pick up your bass. Don't worry too much if you can't pitch your singing correctly, it's the feel you are after.

From my point of view that's just a list of random covers that go down well. Most bands loosely specialise in a genre. Maybe if you organised them into 3 distinct sets it might make more sense, the songs are great stand alone songs but don't think they work as a set.

[quote name='Monkey Steve' timestamp='1500654056' post='3339428'] I see it as a three way split. 1. Those that have to do it for money so want to play every paying gig 2. Those that do it for fun but playing gigs is more fun than not playing gigs so are happy to commit to whatever comes along 3. Those that do it for fun but will only play gigs when it's fun for them, and want to pick and choose and will put other social arrangements before the band when it suits them. [/quote] #4 Being in a band is hard work and has costs associated with it. You're providing a service (albeit having fun while doing it) and should be adequately renumerated for it, even if it's just to cover those costs.

You'll get weird phasing effects as the sound bounces off the back wall and then couples either constructively or destructively with the waves going straight out to the audience.

Excellent. I've managed to make a dent in the 35 tunes I have to play in 4 weeks time. A shed load of them are 3 chord wonders. Happy days. A shed load of them I've never heard of before though. Not so happy days.