TimR

[quote name='Davo-London' timestamp='1477324052' post='3161422'] LOL, good responses. I too play with loud drummers. I hate it. That's why I play drums very quietly. Seriously, I've been asked, on occasions, to play louder. Imagine that! Davo [/quote] You have a nice light touch both on bass and drums, it's a pleasure to listen to.

Go with the drums. The guitars will work it out but the bass can never not be locked in with the drums.

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1477343446' post='3161652'] Fair enough, I'll delete it. [/quote] No. I agree. Dead or Alive had a few hits in the mid 80s but he wasn't exactly a household name and not one of the big 60s/70s artists now in their 70s who will now be regularly appearing in the obits. Even as a teenager in the 80s I only know his name because he was on Never Mind the Buzzcocks a couple of times.

Part of the problem (and it's similar to the PA situation we are discussing) is that a lot of 'musicians' get hung up on trying to reproduce the original exactly as it is on the original recording. Being a musician to me is understanding how the lyrics, melody and bassline interact to create a song. Once you understand that you can pick any song and reproduce it to a very high standard using any instrumentation you have available. There's a huge amount of production and filling in music. I think of the original recording as like an oil painting that the artist has spent months creating from his original sketch. If you saw Leonardo Da Vinci's sketch of Mona Lisa, it would still be recognisable as the Mona Lisa.

I really don't agree with this. I've heard people sing Beatles tunes while strumming an acoustic guitar. No bass, no drums, no lead guitar, no three/four part vocal harmonies...

The strap and the lead.

Parts missing? What does this even mean? I thought we were playing modern pop and rock songs, not orchestral movements! Some people are way too precious.

Mick's mic.

I think a call to the landlady on Monday to make sure that she agreed this with her manager and he hasn't just pocketed your cash. Then play it by ear. Pub gigs eh.

Yes. And we are sticking an O/H on the kit just for fun.

Sorry I think I mislead everyone earlier. The guitarist has just bought the speakers in. One in each hand. They're Yamaha DXR8s.

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1477131846' post='3160012'] The whole project! We went through a few guitarists who had to get up to speed each time, until the drummer eventually decided that he wasn't into that kind of music! It's a shame because it was actually one of the best Floyd tributes I've ever heard - almost as good as the Aussie lot [/quote] That's more than frustrating. I certainly wouldn't have lasted 4 weeks of practices. A tribute band? You just learn the songs off the CD and turn up, do a few practices and gig them. Frightening how hard some people make this music thing.

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1477138606' post='3160086'] I'm sorry. Our opinions differ. Put a live recording up of your band... and I'll put a live recording up of my band from my Tascam DR-07 [/quote] I have no idea what you're getting at here. What's the competition got to do with anything being discussed? Nowhere has anyone said your system isn't better than mine or anyone else's. The point is practicality and necessity. It's neither practical nor necessary for my situation.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1477143498' post='3160123'] Err you are the guy saying my views are stuck in the past right? Have you heard what a piece of crap kick drum sounds like live through a gate and compressor? Trust me it sounds like something else! I'm still waiting for you to tell me what you are doing differently to the illustrations above regarding backline, I suspect it's just what I've drawn but for different speaker sizes? [/quote] So we have to buy a mic, a gate, a compressor, full range speakers because someone won't tune his drum or replace his 25year old skins? Nonsense. Yes. We don't have that "PA" part, which is presumably all those processors and amplifiers. I use 2 2x10" stacked vertically so the bass is already at ear height. We don't need/have a fill monitor for the drummer. . The internet is really struggling today. Think it's loads of DDoS attacks. .

I'm sorry, but an unmiced bass drum does not sound boxy if you have tunes it properly. It's inly inaudible if your bass amp is turned up to stun or kill. If the drummer can't hear the vocal monitor or guitar then he is paying too loud. End of discussion. As I say, I don't see a problem with putting a band through a PA when the situation warrants it. 99.9% of the time we play it's a non-starter for practical reasons already explained. If you're listening to a band that can't control their sound ten they're not going to fix it with a PA. I've had the same argument with drummers before - my bass drum needs to sound like "X", mic it up. We are a live band not a CD recording. You can't make something sound like something else.

Just remember the top string is the same as the bottom string and the B would be the same as the bottom B on a 5.

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1477053599' post='3159540'] After two years of weekly rehearsals... Keys/band leader: I don't think this is ready to gig yet Good bye [/quote] Is this the whole project or just a particular song? I'd have been out after 4 weeks!

Our PA consists of a Souncraft EFX12 mixer, two active Yamaha 10" tops and a couple of monitors. There's no way I'm lugging a 4x10 bass cab anywhere, ever. They sound terrible. I'm afraid after 30+ years of playing I'm not prepared to do whatever it takes. I will do whatever is practical given the time available and budget. I think (from your drawing) you have an image stuck in your head. .

As Dad says. "The correct solution" is to tune the bass drum correctly.

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1477059851' post='3159607'] Leroy - you actually may want to look into a triggered kick - say a Roland RT30k and a TM2. This will give you the sound of a compressed, eqed, bleed free kick but without the hassle of running outboard, or some sort of digital desk. It will actually sound a lot better than most people's efforts at getting a decent live kick sound also. Also means your drummer can carry around a tiddler of a kick drum too. [/quote] Man alive! That's a sledgehammer to crack a nut. What kind of gigs are you guys playing? Someone suggests they might like a little bit more prescence from the bass drum and we're into triggers. Madness. Take a step back guys.

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1477059630' post='3159602'] This is a completely different argument. Logistics of getting the gear to the gig is not the same discussion as comparing the merits of the band going through the PA or not through the PA. [/quote] No. It's the same discussion. It's a factor of whether your band can warrant using a full PA. If I had a van and roadies and a sound engineer and millions of pounds to spend, I just turned up to the gig, plugged in and played, then it'd be full PA always. I don't. So it's not. So saying its a better way of doing things and it's the way we should all do it is academic.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1477054147' post='3159547'] I take the PA and my amp, the smallest vocal PA and a pair of 2x10 bass cabs would take up more room than my combo and two full range pa tops. I've pointed that out ten times so far only to be met with "we haven't got room for a bigger PA" so I think I'll give up about now. [/quote] Possibly becuase you're not reading what I'm writing. The guitarist owns the PA. 2x10" tops. They are physically 30% possibility more, of the size of the same 15" tops and a lot lighter. FACT. The specs are on the website. He has to fit them and his guitar amp and monitors in his car and load it all in and out at his home. I bring both my 2x10s. Mainly because getting the speakers higher does exactly the same thing as putting the bass through the PA. I could easily gig with just the one 2x10" as you do. There is, and never will be, a one size fits all solution. When I regularly played in a function band in halls to 300-500 people then we had full range PA support. It's completely unneccesary for my current band situation. .

This thread goes back to 2011! Just realised I commented on it 4 years ago. Anyone here's one: Band: "Let's do this one." Singer: "I don't know it, how does it go?" <put on music> Singer: "Yeah, it's a nice tune but I've never heard it so no one will know it." Band: "Everyone will know it." Singer: "Yeah, but I don't, so I'll have to learn the words and everything." Band: "But we have had to learn the music to every tune we play." Singer: "But you are musicians, it's easy for you." ...

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1477044469' post='3159412'] There's an echo in here. They don't for the reasons I have explained previously. [/quote] They do. I'm using 2 2x10" stacked vertically. Moving those speakers 3m further forward will make absolutely no difference. Honestly, in a room 10-15m long there is absolutely no point. We don't bleed into the vocal mikes. The singer is standing right behind his mic. As I say, if we played to 300 people in a huge venue that would be completely different but the pubs we play are generally the size of the ground floor of a large house. I have recordings of the band taken for the back of these pubs. As Phil says more than one way to skin a cat and I don't see getting bigger FOH speakers to put the bass through so I have smaller cabs behind me as a worthwhile exercise. All it means is I have smaller gear to bring and the guitarist (who owns the PA) has bigger gear. As it is I bring everything in with two trips and my 500W amp is rarely turned up above 4 on the volume knob. .

For the majority of gigs we play the difference between the 'dance floor' and the 'stage' depends where the monitor/PA speakers are positioned making an imaginary line on the floor. At most our audience are standing 10-15m away from the band. They hear what we hear. The answer to the OP is no. Every situation is different and you have to purchase your gear bearing in mind the usual type of gigs you play and then tailor your gear to match the size of audience and venue.