TimR

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1477990806' post='3165695'] Sometimes some folk have got quite upset when I've sellected parts only from a quote, even with the "...". [/quote] Sone folk are just looking for stuff to get upset about though.

[quote name='Rocker' timestamp='1478005076' post='3165884'] I noticed that too. But the cynic, that is me, wonders why the guy expends so much energy into just proving that something does not perform as the manufacturer claims. If buyers believe it works, then it works for them. If not, it doesn't. I believe that the so called 'retail therapy' can make us feel a lot better about ourselves. The new suit theory... What is wrong about feeling better about ourselves? There are enough problems without someone adding to the list and calling us liars if we believe something works, even if it can be 'proved' that it does not. [/quote] That's a different thing though. One of the posters here is a PHD researching the Placebo Effect. He was on Horizon? a couple of years back. It's certainly real and researchers have to go a long way to eliminate it from their experiments.

It's the musicians curse. Once you learn an instrument you will be forever listening to what it is doing during a piece of music. The best producers and musicians are those that can rise above this point and go back to listening to music in the same way as a non musician does. It's no surprise to me that there are a lot of very good ex-bass player producers. I don't think you'd get this discussion on another forum. Bass players need to be able to understand melody, counter melody, harmony and bass to be good players. You don't get that by only listening to the bass.

Don't forget to add ellipsis if [quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1477947020' post='3165500'] ... you quote just sections of a post ... [/quote] Otherwise you could unintentionally misrepresent the OP.

Haven't got a clue. The set list has all the first notes written on it so I get that one right, after that I just wing them.

I guess looking at it from the other point of view. I've played in a few situations where I've had to borrow gear or use house gear. Basses, amps, leads and cabs. Assuming all the gear is good quality, a rubbish lead can be a nightmare, I've never managed to get a decent sound out of any 4x10" cab. So maybe for me it's a cab, not a deal breaker, but I'd rather avoid using them.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1477666047' post='3163746'] I am often amazed at the drummers people will put up with. I'll see this in dep gigs as I wouldn't come across them otherwise, tbh. I have come to the conclusion that I am very susceptible to time..so in turn, my time is very good, IMO, but I can't drag someone too far..and neither should I have to. A recent experience had a drummer that used to come in on sections of a song at a completely different tempo to the tempo he start the song at..so in effect they could have been different songs. Funnily enough his time during THAT sequence was way more solid which made the different tempo's most baffling... He even knew he did it as well...!!!!!!!!! THAT was very hard work and I didn't stick around. As for time, I don't have to watch a drummer, if he is on our gigs, time is just not an issue so the 1 will be on the 1. I don't know why that is even a discussion. [/quote] The reason it's up for discussion is that it can and does happen. The OP is questioning the right way to resolve it because he feels that whichever way you solve it, it 'feels' wrong. I'd suggest this is because the mistake has already happened and after that everything is 'wrong'. In this case two wrongs do actually make a right. Someone has to do something that is wrong musically to pull it all back into line.

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1477646230' post='3163507'] We do similar, but its a case of "if you're booked off, the band leader sorts a dep, if you are unavailable after the booking, you get a dep" The problem now is that with the management team going from 3 to 1 (because apparently I don't contribute enough, and the git is too busy with work atm) the person leading the band wants us to just invite the band calendar to the events on our personal calendar. Which is just rude and not very respecting fo my privacy. I dont want them to know if i'm booked in some nice hotel somewhere with the mrs, i just want them to know i'm busy. Yes I could create two events on my own calendar, but thats just makes my calendar look a mess. [/quote] I'm sure with the google calendar you can make certain events private and it just shows as busy to everyone else. Useful if you just fancy a night off. https://support.google.com/calendar/answer/34580?co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop&hl=en .

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1477648296' post='3163523'] In pre-Internet times I played in a big band. The man had to make a minimum of 54 phone calls per gig. 18x3. [/quote] We had a chain. The Man called 6 people. They each called 6 people. That's 40+ people covered.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1477342248' post='3161633'] Glare at the drummer so everyone else knows it was their fault [/quote] Doesn't work if he's glaring at you.

But you're only as strong as your weakest link. If the drummer has lost it and you've noticed then it's unlikely you're playing with a real solid guy who is likely to adjust back. I've played with drummers who are convinced that they're the time keeper of the band and everyone should follow them. They start every tune with 4 stick clicks. It's not always apparent you're playing with this type of drummer for a while, for various reasons. It wasn't until I started playing with other bands and depping that Inrealised how bad the drummer I was playing with was. Even worse he was blaming all the problems on me and I was losing confidence. It wasn't fun playing with him, it was more like a war. There may be some very experienced players here and a few pros who can recognise this sort of behaviour straight away. I'd challenge them to continue playing out of time with a drummer right to the end of a tune because he's convinced everyone else in the band is wrong. Ultimately you can never win and leaving is the only option, then watch the band struggle as they go through a string of bass players. Drums and bass lock in together. All the other instruments can shift easily around the beat and it makes no difference to the song. All the micro-timing is absorbed. But if the bass and drums are not locked in you have a real problem. It's all very well saying sack the drummer, but you can't do that mid gig or if you have a string of gigs lined up.

Sorry. If the drummer hasn't sorted himself by the first beat of the next bar, then I'm going with him. The rest of the band should be communicating by this point and everyone will shift. The same happens if it's a bodged fill, the musicians should spot this and make adjustment there and then before the first beat of the next bar. That's always been what happens in every band I've played in. No one carries on regardless. Everyone listens and watches.

Yes. Maintain eye contact.

Maybe people are reading too much into this. The OP is pretty clear about the situation. "Microsecond".

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1477395377' post='3161915'] I think he's saying that PB didn't make any impression on him in the 80s, and that he only knows him from being on the telly a couple of times since. [/quote] I think Lord Sausage was attempting to be funny.

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1477392855' post='3161880'] ... Buzzcocks only started in 96 [/quote] Quite. As Bilbo says, more famous for being famous than being a singer.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1477385394' post='3161804'] I'm not understanding some of these posts. So the drummer drops a stick, has a brain fart and looses the beat or stops to scratch his bum in the middle of a number and you follow with the resulting cock-up? That is the worst thing any of you can do. If one band member makes a mistake the rest of the band carries the number until that player gets back on track. It isn't a problem if one of the players, even the drummer, stops playing for a bar or 2 while getting their bearings, but the train wreck of everyone trying to follow a mistake is not what should be happening. [/quote] No. I played go far to long with a drummer who used to throw in the odd 4 1/2 beat fill. You can't ignore that. If you thump in on the one while he is still doing the fill the whole world notices. If the band are listening to each other this is just a minor pause. There will be a few sideways glances and dancers will notice a hiccup but everything will carry on. You can't have the bass banging away in one time and the drums banging away in another. If the drummer is regularly dropping or adding half beats on his fills, it's time to find another band.

[quote name='Davo-London' timestamp='1477324052' post='3161422'] LOL, good responses. I too play with loud drummers. I hate it. That's why I play drums very quietly. Seriously, I've been asked, on occasions, to play louder. Imagine that! Davo [/quote] You have a nice light touch both on bass and drums, it's a pleasure to listen to.

Go with the drums. The guitars will work it out but the bass can never not be locked in with the drums.

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1477343446' post='3161652'] Fair enough, I'll delete it. [/quote] No. I agree. Dead or Alive had a few hits in the mid 80s but he wasn't exactly a household name and not one of the big 60s/70s artists now in their 70s who will now be regularly appearing in the obits. Even as a teenager in the 80s I only know his name because he was on Never Mind the Buzzcocks a couple of times.

Part of the problem (and it's similar to the PA situation we are discussing) is that a lot of 'musicians' get hung up on trying to reproduce the original exactly as it is on the original recording. Being a musician to me is understanding how the lyrics, melody and bassline interact to create a song. Once you understand that you can pick any song and reproduce it to a very high standard using any instrumentation you have available. There's a huge amount of production and filling in music. I think of the original recording as like an oil painting that the artist has spent months creating from his original sketch. If you saw Leonardo Da Vinci's sketch of Mona Lisa, it would still be recognisable as the Mona Lisa.

I really don't agree with this. I've heard people sing Beatles tunes while strumming an acoustic guitar. No bass, no drums, no lead guitar, no three/four part vocal harmonies...

The strap and the lead.

Parts missing? What does this even mean? I thought we were playing modern pop and rock songs, not orchestral movements! Some people are way too precious.

Mick's mic.