TimR

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1469211302' post='3096751'] Serious question: When using the term 'a standard' in a jazz context, is that basically the same thing as 'a cover' in other genres? [/quote] No. There are standards in pop/rock. They're just tunes that everyone is expected to know. Mustang Sally, Brown Eyed Girl, Dakota... They make putting together bands, gigging and jam sessions so much easier if the majority of musicians have a common pool of music to pull from. .

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1469189073' post='3096446'] I don't think the 'made famous' bit is relevant when it comes to covers. There are plenty of examples of a cover version being more famous/successful than the original, e.g. Clapton's Cocaine, Lynyrd Skynrd's Call Me The Breeze are both covers of JJ Cale songs, but I'd be the majority of listeners don't know that. We're over-complicating things. A cover is simply any song not performed by the original artist. No qualifications needed really. [/quote] Yes I put the (made famous) part in brackets because I really meant that the song has been tested pretty well on the public before being released. Music is a product pretty much like any other, most products go through some kind of consumer tresting before going into major production. AFAIK music doesn't really, it's a bit of a hit and miss affair. Playing songs that have already met with appreciation is a lot easier than trying to convince an audience to listen to tunes they've never heard before. Plenty of originals bands and singers (who are not writers) have played non original tunes. I'm guessing there's a point at which you define your band as an originals band and make a statement like "We're an originals act but we're happy playing covers, whilst it's not our main aim." Or "We're a covers band but we throw in a few tunes we've written ourselves." Tribute acts are simply covers bands who only play covers by a particular artist.

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1469184295' post='3096378'] haven't read the whole thread, but were/are Elvis and Cliff Richard covers artist because they don't write their own material? must be bands about like that too, some of the boy bands seem to do a lot of covers as did the Hollies to start with [/quote] No. They had material that was written specifically for them. A cover is more specifically a song that was originally recorded (and made famous?) by another artist beforehand. ie the risk and hard work of selling the song and determining whether it will be popular has already be done. All you have to do is copy what they did.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1469169543' post='3096210'] Great post but the last sentence also misses a point. Music has many purposes and the one you describe is undoubtedly the most popular but, for some, the process of creativity is the driver and not the roar of the crowd. This is no less legitimate because it is less popular. What is interesting is they way in which 'muso' innovation creeps into the mainstream [/quote] I was talking specificically with respect to cover bands. Funnily enough last night my local pub had a girl singing with just an acoustic guitar. She was playing loads of the latest tunes. No drum machine or karaoke backing tracks. She was very good.

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1469098388' post='3095676'] Ah, you'd rather it was the norm than seen as something special/ Oddly enough, since you mentioned Mr Cowell, the X Factor live shows are actually notable for imaginative re-interpretations. I think as long as the song is recognisable, the punters are happy. [/quote] Not the norm, but it's not hard to 'reimagine' a tune using different instrumentation and applying a slightly different style. .

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1469096215' post='3095645'] Not sure if I'm reading you correctly, but why's it a shame? I sooner hear a "original" performance (in which the performer has some emotional investment) than an accurate but lifeless replication of someone else's performance. [/quote] Yes. That's my point. It's a shame that the public think it's something special when someone sings a cover on a TV show that sounds a bit different to the original recording. I have a hard time convincing the band I play with to try anything with strings, keys, brass etc as we're a three piece. All it takes is a little imagination and you're off.

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1469094502' post='3095627'] *rolls up sleeves* Have we ordered the taxa incorrectly? Historically (and from what I've seen today) jazz bands give little thought as to whether they want to focus on "covers" or self-penned material; a set will often comprise their interpretations of various standards and other tunes, maybe along with a couple of pieces written by the band members. I have encountered jazz bands who mostly focus on writing their own pieces, just like I've encountered some who are happy to just take tunes out of the Real Book and haul those into new territory, but nobody seems to be too worried about whether they're an "originals" band or not. (Ditto orchestras - I know a lot of them will crowbar a modern composer's piece into the first half before they play what you actually paid to hear, but it's not often written by the feller waving his stick around at the front.) The distinction does seem to be a bit more endemic to rock/pop music, and then I wonder...has the distinction been reinforced artificially by pub landlords who want to eliminate the risk that the band they're booking will play a 2-hour doom-sludge-improv set? [/quote] There are a lot of OCD musicians out there who are more to blame. Particularly in the very highly paid wedding and function area. Bands who spend hours getting to sound exactly like the original recorded versions. I think with Jazz and Classical, there are no, de facto, original recorded versions. By the time recording was invented, the idea of improv was so embedded in jazz and there were so many orchestras playing classical that it becomes a mute point. For many the whole idea of covering a recording artists recording is capturing the recording, not capturing the spirit of the song. Then when you get people like Simon Cowell saying "Well done, you took that song and made it your own.", it's like it's a compliment and that no one else can do that kind of thing. It's a shame really. At the other end of the spectrum you get musicians who just busk songs and leave out important aspects of a song because they can't make the bridge fit etc.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1469042735' post='3095366'] ... It seems like in the UK "Cover Band"means "Mustang Sally" and "Moon Dance". This has always been confusing to me because that's not the case in the US. How do you personally define cover band? Blue [/quote] Ok. In the UK we have a strong tradition of sing along drinking songs. From old rugby songs through to wartime Vera Lynne songs, traditional East End of London "Roll out the barrel" Chas and Dave type songs. Often around a badly tuned piano. This is what the Beatles picked up on. Traditional Irish songs and Sea shanties that were sung in the pubs around the docks in Liverpool. That's essentially why the UK crowd are always asking you to 'play something we know'. They're not after a song they've heard before, they're after a song they know the words to and can sing along to. There are a lot of what we call 'musos' on BassChat who like to think they're above that and that their job is to educate the punters and bring in alternative music to the traditional songs. All very admirable but I think they're somewhat missing the point.

[quote name='rogerstodge' timestamp='1469043813' post='3095375'] normally done by midnight maybe 12.15 with encores, I could be in the car by 12.30 but I'd never hear the last of it, also I'm the only band member with a full time job so I don't need to be slowly packing away while chatting till 2 am, then another chat in the car park for an hour. [/quote] Oh yes. That is sloooww. If we finish at 12:00 we'd be ready to leave by 01:00. We've done it hundreds of times and all know what we have to do.

[quote name='rogerstodge' timestamp='1469030748' post='3095234'] that is exactly me Rhys.. The others seem to hang around for hours after gigs, I'm packed up and gone then they're calling me unsociable and grumpy. [/quote] What time do you finish a gig? We usually pay off the singer before packing down which gets rid of him. Then the rest of us finish a pint together while leisurely packing down.

Yes. There's always a musical compromise in a three piece. When the frontman is concentrating on singing vocals he's not concentrating on playing his guitar and vice versa. Even Sting and Geddy Lee acknowledge that playing live has to have some compromise.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1468953846' post='3094657'] I know a few gtrs players with valve amps who wont play venues like this unless they can bypass the cut-off. As I understand this situation tho.... the P.A is a choke point but it wont cut out. If all this was on the table at the quote stage, I'd veto the gig. [/quote] Yes. It's not a cut out device, it's a hard knee compressor type arrangement limiting the volume from the main FOH speakers. If it's only vocals and bass guitar (and keys) going through the FOH I can't see it being majorly limited. Especially if they're using A weighted dB which shouldn't be a problem with nuisance peaks.

I have 2 2x10s. I only take the second one to gigs.

Interesting that it's only the PA that is limited to 95dBA, presumably the drums are separate to that. Is there anyway you can pop in and see a band playing a wedding there beforehand to put your mind at rest. If they're regularly doing weddings this can't be an issue, most people book venues on the strength that they've previously been to a wedding there. Interesting that they're not providing monitoring and you can take guitar amps. I don't think this will be an issue.

A solid chunkiness that you can almost smell.

Just didn't feel right. Everything was OK with the communications, I pulled up outside the meet up having learned all the tunes. But there was something wrong I couldn't put my finger on. When I actually met the guitarist nothing clicked. He didn't actually offer me the gig anyway so that was academic, but I'm just not sure I would have accepted.

The best man will have the cash, along with loads of other cash he is holding for paying various people at various points during the day. He'll want to get rid of it as soon as possible. I'd suspect he'll approach you as soon as he can.

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1468673508' post='3092546'] Who's that by? [/quote] Either 10CC or The Osmonds?

You just need your songs to have a strong recognisable hook that cuts in within the first 2-4 bars. You also need plenty of songs people know the words to. Women listen to the lyrics and dance. Men tap their feet at the bar and only dance when the women do. Playing obscure album covers in an attempt to teach your audience will just get you men standing at the bar tapping their feet. Not a bad thing but IME it can be a bit soul destroying. There's a million tunes out there, Beatles, 50s Rock'n'roll and Elvis covers are easy, boring and predictable. We don't do them in my current band, however, in a previous function band I was in; we didn't really start getting wedding and function bookings until we added them to our set list. Horses for courses. .

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1468349731' post='3090374'] I guess we all have drum stories but one of the first things I ask is who is on drums. Time is not negotiable.. I can play on and behind but I don't want a push either. I like to think I can make the drums work but you don't want to start from a negative position where it is as much as you can do to make it 'ok'.. I'd pass........ [/quote] Yes, It's hard work when you're trying to drive the drums for a three hour gig. Or at rehearsals week after week. Unfortunately for a lot of us it only actually becomes apparent after we've played with someone a lot better, at which point there's no going back. My turning point was when I started depping for other bands and actually ended up joining two other side bands because the first main band I was playing in weren't getting gigs, or particularly interested in gigging. Usually by the end of the first song at each rehearsal I'd start feeling on edge. It was not worth persevering with.

[quote name='interpol52' timestamp='1467639654' post='3085036'] I've just quit my band for reasons 1 and 2 in my original post to start this thread. Some things never change. It also became more and more apparent that guitarist 1 and guitarist 2 didn't actually know how to interact and complement eachothers lines. We started doing Californication and they thought that it sounded good with them both playing the intro. It didn't, it killed the dynamics of the song as it progresses. I'm getting a bit demoralised by playing in bands. [/quote] I joined a band where the guitarists both wanted to play lead. Sounded awful. I managed to steer them around and get them to share it about and the songs all instantly sounded 100% better. It's worth pressing them sometimes. They might just not be aware of how awful it sounds to everyone else. .

I have one of those aluminium camer/tool/flight cases from Homebase/B&Q too. It's got my old fx pedals and electronics like zoom recorder and B2 in it. It doesn't usually go to a gig with me. I have a messenger bag for cables/towel/music stand/pad/pens/gaffa/batteries/strings/screwdrivers/fuses/tuner... I regularly have to go through it and chuck out bits I've accumulated in it, mainly old set lists.

[quote name='JoeEvans' timestamp='1467568410' post='3084607'] Bare essentials = 1 bass, 1 lead and 1 amp, surely? [/quote] Yes. Assuming it's a combo. I have that pretty much. But amp and cab. Plus a tuner. And some spare strings, and a spare battery, and a screwdriver...

I have three basses. One I play. One that is in a hard case and comes out if my main bass fails. It only failed once, when my backup bass was a home. One that is in the loft, I'll never sell it. Mainly because it should be thrown in the bin, but it was my first bass. When I bought my bass I spent a very long time looking for it, close on 7 years of searching. In the mean time I didn't buy something that was nearly right. I've had it for 15 years now.

I did start a top 40 classic rock thread http://basschat.co.uk/topic/250536-basschat-ultimate-top-40-2014