TimR

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1457093959' post='2995258'] I'm not really suprised, it is a bit vague at the moment! [/quote] The definitions are pretty solid, it's proving someone was/is competent before setting them to work that's the problem. Systems are more complicated and we're a lot hotter on safety than we used to be.

[quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1457088072' post='2995125'] If he's testing class 1 equipment like our amps then how does he know the metal work on the amp is earthed to the earth on the plug top? Ok don't flash test the electronics but a continuity test between the earth pin on the socket on the amp and the exposed metal is a MUST! Any amp technicians here to substantiate my claim? [/quote] I'm not an amp tech but when we PAT test PCs we do.

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1457080720' post='2995038'] PAT testing has no legal requirement or a legal standard - it is a test of safety as deemed appropriate by the people using the equipment. To quote: [/size][/font][/color] [color=#111111][font=Arial, sans-serif][size=3] [/size][/font][/color][/color] [color=#101010]I have a degree in electronics, therefore I deem myself a competent person with knowledge to be able to check and test appliances, and therefore I can do my own PAT testing and produce my own certificates[/color] [font=HelveticaNeue, Helvetica-Neue,][color=#101010][size=3]Remember, it is like an MOT As well - all you are saying is that AT THE TIME OF THE TEST it was in a safe state - ie that if it subsequently fails the next day / week/month then it is not the responsibility of the PAT tester, and you can show that you took reasonable steps towards maintaining the safety of your equipment (by PAT testing it every year )[/size][/color][/font] [/quote] Yes competent and qualified mean different things within the electrical regulations. There are moves to remove 'competent' and require people to be qualified. Certainly there is a difficulty in proving competency without testing at which point you may as well qualify the person. I'd be wary of saying a degree in electrical engineering makes you competent. It certainly makes you qualified. There's a lot of basic electrical practical knowledge gained after you qualify. Personally I keep the two very separate.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1457047043' post='2994921'] OK, I'll take the risk. I'd like to make an observation, though - IME the people who go on about the importance of PAT testing the most are the people who get paid to do the tests. [/quote] Yes. Those and the people who Investigate deaths of people who've been electrocuted or died in fires caused by faulty electrical equipment.

@DrTStingray. I remember being in one of the bass shops in London when a guy came in and asked for a specific model of Fender, year, colour etc. For a one off gig with a Shadows tribute act. All very odd. Especially when with the Pink Floyd example we're talking about it is one note played 4 times in the song.

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1456942468' post='2993873'] But surely this must be the definitive live version: ... [/quote] Superb. Only problem now is I'm going to have to learn how to use a pick.

In the UK the money is in band 3 and band 4 will be full of dreamers who either get out and play or who implode on the Tuesday before their first gig.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1456937658' post='2993798'] Whether we like country or not band number 2 is the only real established band with gigs and the eopportunity to make some money. Blue [/quote] Not in this country it wouldn't. You might get a few barn dances but over here we have Celidh bands with callers.

Thought there would be a simpler way.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1456842035' post='2992791'] I use a Mac. Thanks for the suggestion though. I've got until mid April, but want to start on it, just for my peace of mind. [/quote] The fonts are held in the Font Book. Otherwise open your word processor and look through the installed fonts. You should be able to just type the symbols into the word processor and cut and paste.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1456840600' post='2992755'] Thanks for all your suggestions, I'll check them out. I've got Sibelius, and use it for regular stuff, but it's not really designed for the more avant garde stuff like I'm asked to do for this assignment. [/quote] Assuming you're using PC. Have a look at your Character map. It should have all your fonts in it. You can just cut and paste from that into your drawing package.

Just use photoshop/gimp etc. There are plenty of Notation fonts around to download. I'm sure an early version of Sibelius installed one on my machine. http://www.fontspace.com/category/notation .

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1456828307' post='2992545'] Ah, don't assume that the artist knows how it's supposed to go Seriously - the recorded performance may have been improvised, yet gone on to be definitive in the eyes (and ears) of the audience, so that's 'how it goes'. [/quote] I'm now worried that I will now have to buy a 5-string before I'm allowed to play the live version of Comfortably Numb to an audience.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1456823791' post='2992486'] There are plenty well known songs that would sound completely lame if you just "follow the chords", to pick some random ones out of the air - Tears of a Clown, Run to You, Rio, and the cant-be-arsed-to-learn-it-properly brigades eternal favourite for butchery All Right Now, and then you can throw in for bonus points pretty much every song by Level 42, Rush, the jam and various other bands with notable highly stylistic players, and oh yeah Comfortably Numb (apparently) ... [/quote] That's not exactly the 'vast majority' is it? The skill comes in knowing when it can and when it shouldn't be changed. Arguing that a serie of notes in one run is wrong, one that in all probability the original artist didn't even think about when they played it, is a complete waste of everyone's time. .

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1456782190' post='2992307'] Personally, I don't think that it is interesting enough musically for it to make a difference! [/quote] I suspect you're right. And Pink Floyd probably only keep it in for the fans as a classic song. I only picked up on it because we're going to play it and I wanted to get some ideas for beginning and ending it.

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1456778055' post='2992244'] We have to adjust quite a lot, because there are only 3 of us, so if the group had more to start with then it tends to feel a bit empty, so we fill it up a bit more (where that is needed). If I am doing a cover, I learn exactly how the thing goes, then we go and practice it, and we move it around a bit until it becomes our interpretation of it. If we can do anything with it, it stays, if not it goes. Some of the songs are close to the original, some are quite a way away. If anyone wants exact, there is a generally a juke box in the corner. [/quote] Whereas, we'll go away with 4 songs. Spend an hour getting the bare bones down. Return and busk through them a few times each and get a feel whether it will work or not. Go away and learn the solos and any significantly important parts. There is more than one way to skin a cat. We all have busy lives and aren't really interested learning tunes note for note that we may never play. I've done that too many times in other bands. Communication and experience are the key. .

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1456782426' post='2992312'] I still want to know the answer to this! [/quote] With a basic bass line, the bass steers the whole song. It has a profound effect on the sound of the chords. You can change the inversion depending on your note choice. You can change the mood by playing an ascending line to make it uplifting or a descending line to make it more sad. We play harmony as well as bass. By legato, I'm thinking probably more single long notes that ring under a whole melody line. Maybe legato is the wrong word. In the Pink Floyd example I posted, Guy doesn't stick to that bottom B, occasionally he'll play the top B. I think it makes a big difference. I have nothing against 5-string basses. In the verse it sounds spot on and had Waters had a 5-string no doubt he would have played low B. It's only an example. I'm not hung up on it. Just don't think it fits that well.

I have a 2B as my spare. It lacks bottom end but it's a very smooth bass with low action and built solidly. Bought new around 1987.

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1456770005' post='2992096'] We'll have to disagree. If you can't be bothered to learn the correct notes which notes are you learning? Imaginary ones? Do you miss the ones that take too much effort? [/quote] The vast majority of bass lines follow standard musical theory. There's very little need to learn anything other than the chords. The rest are just passing notes and filling.

[quote name='Clarebear68' timestamp='1456761938' post='2991971'] IMO, unless it's a tribute act, then it's all down to artistic choices ... and as long as both the band and the audience enjoys it, isn't that what really matters? I used to play in an 80s covers band and we'd often spend weeks of rehearsals getting a song as close as we could to the original and the audience wouldn't really notice and then we'd play a punked up version of something like 'Walk Like an Egyptian' ... as far from the original as you could get (even had a male vocalist) and they'd be asking us to play it 2 or 3 times, they liked it that much. [/quote] Yes I've been there too and it's seriously painful. Especially when one person insists everyone else gets it exactly right and then decides to drop a middle 8 because it's too tricky and they can't be bothered to work on it. Learn the chord structure, the melody and the form. Most songs are pretty simple, going into minutiae about what the exact original notes are seems OCD. .

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1456687132' post='2991454'] Yeah, but also just cos everything else lifts doesn't mean you should. Contrary motion, counterpoint etc all valid musical devices. I'm not saying you're wrong as i've never listened to the song you are on about. But musically i like things moving in different directions. [/quote] It's just during the chorus. 1:38 on here. http://youtu.be/vi7cuAjArRs

[quote name='barneyg42' timestamp='1456678508' post='2991308'] I'm sure David Gilmour would have said if he didn't like it!! [/quote] Maybe. But he's not a bass player and it's a live performance.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1456655501' post='2991014'] I don't know what you're all listening to, but I'm listening to Guy Pratt playing a 5 string status with Pink Floyd in 1994. Sounds like perfect 5 string bass playing to me. [/quote] It's the last note of the verse. Everything lifts into the chorus. Except the bass. Just because you can play a note doesn't mean you should.

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1456601072' post='2990683'] It differs from the original in two places, I think - in the first instrumental he goes from low B to the A G F# E run down, and in the choruses, the second time through the D A D A he plays the low rather than the high D. The bit in the instrumental sounds wrong to me, I can see the logic of what he's doing in the chorus though as in that part the melody rises from D to A rather than falling. [/quote] It's the last note of each verse that's wrong, the vocals lift going into the chorus.

Many players over-obsess about getting the parts exactly as per the original.