TimR

Last night we played a local gig in a traditional music pub that we've played many times before. The pub has changed hands 4 times in the last 3-4 years. 2 of them in the last 6 months. Things weren't good from the start, the landlord obviously didn't want us there. At the end of the gig he claimed he didn't know how much we were charging, claimed he didn't know whether we were coming or not, claimed he had no way of contacting us. I asked him if he'd looked at us on Facebook or LemonRock as not only are we there, but his pub is there advertising us as playing. He said, yes, he knew he was on lemonrock and had checked us out on Facebook. WTF? The pub has had a big refurb and is much more pleasant place to be. The customer base has completely changed. I suspect (but don't know) he will not be doing live music after Christmas. He's moved the bands into a corner out of the way, the acoustics within the corner aren't good. The heat was unbearable, the front door was wide open, this was playing havoc with the tuning and the guitarist (who I've never seen break a string) broke two strings. Feedback from the crowd was very mixed but generally positive. We had a couple of blokes looming around, no one left, there was some polite applause and lots of people came up afterwards saying how much they'd liked it. The landlord grumbled and said his customers didn't like it and we were to heavy for him. It'll be a shame as the pub has a very long history of live music. Although I suspect the landlord may not last very long there, he may be a 'troubleshooter' put in to turn the pub into a going concern after the last guy messed up pretty badly (cancelled our last gig with a day's notice) and allegedly drank the profits. Was the first time in a while we've had to sign for the money. .

I think a desk, two tops, stands and two monitors are a pretty small PA. I can't see anyone demanding money for use of that. It'd be nice if the rest of the band show some token of appreciation though. The problem is its one of those band tasks that get shared out, but it's the only band task that has to be done at set times. Before and after each gig. All other tasks, promotion, websites, set lists, can be done at your leisure. There's a difference between having use of the PA and just expecting it to be there. I only started charging the band when they stopped helping with setup and breakdown, expected a Wembly arena a sound and studio quality monitoring. The PA get bigger and the expectations became unrealistic.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1474487280' post='3138390'] Yes,as is often the case, although I think I detect just a tinge of sarcasm in your post. I would, however, encourage you, nevertheless, to continue these leaps of imagination. Some might well be actual, real-life situations, you never know. Thanks for your enlightening contribution, anyway. [/quote] That was a real life situation. If the band members all live miles away from each other it makes no sense for them all to be traipsing round the country in the middle of the night to carry mic stands up and down a driveway in the rain.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1474484390' post='3138365'] Other logistics solutions are available. [/quote] Quite right. The rest of the band members could each add 80miles onto their round trip that way we're all out of pocket for the gig and have to spend an extra 2 hours in the car. Marvellous solution. Well done. I suspect they're quite happy giving the PA £10 each.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1474476411' post='3138305'] ^ Sometimes. Other models are available. [/quote] Well. If everyone is worth the same hourly rate, the guy that's hauling the PA at 3am in the middle of winter while all his band 'mates' are asleep should receive something for his efforts. It's only fair.

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1474457009' post='3138130'] I dont get why the PA should b chargeable. I provide my instruments, rig, pedals etc without charging extra. If I need a set of strings I dont expect the band to chip in. [/quote] It depends what it's being used for.

[quote name='mep' timestamp='1474407367' post='3137868'] All 4 of us have a share in the PA. We all go through it in some way or another. If I dont DI Then I have always got my backing vocals anyway. Guitar always Di's. Drums always has bass drum and sometimes overhead. Everyone is responsible for their own mics stands and XLR cables. Although the singer (or rather his parents) paid for a dual wireless SM 58 kit which I use one of. Works well for us. As mentioned you also need an exit strategy. In a previous band the same ownership applied and when we finished and the others went to do original stuff so I was bought out and got myself an EBMM Stingray which is my main bass. My current band hads the same exit agreement. [/quote] How did they work out what you should be bought out for?

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1474106983' post='3135636'] Possibly true. Although every group I have been in has insisted on doing some slow songs, which I never understood, seems indulgent for the band but I suppose it gives the audience time to go for a piss and a beer! [/quote] I think it gives the audience a chance to calm down a bit. Music is all about light and shade. Too many bands just play at an audience, assaulting them with a wall of noise.

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1474105968' post='3135616'] Seen several cover groups do spirit of radio, would hardly think its niche. Can't just play blues all the time! [/quote] It's not either/or is it? Just think there are some unusual songs. I'm guessing the keyboard player might have a big say on the tunes. There's an interesting video of Toto - Africa. They do fit into my category of "getting the tune exactly like the original" though, I'm not always keen on that approach as you can easily miss a lot of the feel concentrating too hard on the notes. A band to listen to rather than move about to?

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1474101088' post='3135576'] im inclined to agree with several others above that both these are just being thrown in there to massage the guitards ego aside... what widdly bits are you referring to ? TJH does a lot of rush vids on the youtubes and this one shows all the positions and fingering nice and clear https://youtu.be/p2XpKFGPUG0 [/quote] Have a look at some of the bands YouTube clips, they're not playing run of the mill tunes.

Where was he trained? Lots of people get 'bass' and 'bass guitar' confused. Maybe he can hear the bass quite well and doesn't realise that must of the mid range prescence is missing. Playing on a stage with FOH can cause problems if the bassist has a huge rig. There's no need to put it through the FOH so recordings won't be very representative.

[quote name='Daz39' timestamp='1474024192' post='3135022'] Spirit of Radio is a bit 'what?!' for a pub crowd - they should stick to rocker tracks that sound cool without obviously showing off: i.e. half the stuff from Test for Echo or something older like Vital Signs or Limelight. [/quote] I'm not sure any Rush songs are that well known amongst non-rush listeners. They're a bit of a marmite band. Looking through YouTube, this band are pretty brave with their song choices. I wonder how they're received in general. I'd like to hear a studio recording of them, I think it would be good. .

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1473930537' post='3134182'] While I salute your generosity, it seems wrong to me that simply because you happen to to have a "proper" job, that you should be the one to fork out the cash on a P.A. If people can't afford the equipment needed to run a band, then they are in the wrong "job" IMO. It also begs the question as to what happens if no none has a proper job ? [/quote] That's why I suggest 'hiring' it back to the band. If no one has a 'proper' job then the band has to go to the bank with a business plan for a loan. Or find a mate willing to lend them some money. Second hand PAs don't cost the earth as already said above.

[quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1473870956' post='3133737'] Some great update comments on this one. For the record I came clean and said that I wouldn't be able to achieve that standard any time soon - which was totally honest. I'm never afraid of a challenge - that's how I got to my current standard. As someone has already said I personally wouldn't want to see or be in a band who bored the pants of a pub crowd with Wayward Son. I was also suspicious of Bohemian Rhapsody aspirations. I've seen this band in one form or another for nearly 20 years now and they've steadily become more um... self absorbed - playing three or four songs that no-one recognises is a cardinal sin IMO. I did find a video of them doing Spirit of Radio with their last-but-one bass player and actually they pretty much nailed the doodly bits - not bad for a six piece! [/quote] It depends what those songs are. Some songs have a powerful hook that holds people's attention from the start. All Rush songs fit into my category of "Everyone in the band loves them, most of the audience have never heard of them." Unless you're playing in Canada. The problem with Queen songs is there are only a few that don't rely on loads of production. What tends to happen is the band gets bogged down in trying to nail parts that are only part of the production instead of stripping the tune back to the lyrics, melody and chord structure and building it back up. The audience will sing most of it anyway. I guess they dropped Spirit of Radio when the new bass player couldn't do it and want to have another go at it. I suspect it needs a certain audience.

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1473875603' post='3133802'] I agree, a speaker on it's own isn't worth anything, but neither is it worth anything being in a band where a little honesty and common sense does not prevail. It worked a treat in that band I was in. If you can't trust your band mates .....!!! Just to be clear...when I talk about splitting the P.A., I mean for transport purposes only...not selling. [/quote] I thought you meant that the band split and everyone went off with different bits of kit!

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1473872720' post='3133763'] Depending on the size of the P.A. (the speaker stands alone can take up a lot of room, both on stage, and in the car), it could be split up among the band. A previous band I was in split it up....I took the speaker stands, and each guitarist took a speaker (with one opting to also take the mixing desk). Granted, we all shared the vocals, but in the end it boils down to people adopting some common sense. [/quote] That sounds like a rubbish solution. A speaker on its own isn't worth anything. The space in a car thing is a pertinent point. I played with a drummer who bought a two door sports hatch. He had to dismantle his bass drum to get it into the back seats. I have always owned large hatchbacks or estates. Wen I left the band I think he had problems transporting drums and PA. Some people don't think about that kind of thing when buying a car I guess.

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1473868195' post='3133710'] That was my initial thought, but [i]WHO[/i] is the one who is going to buy it ? By your own admission ( with which I agree makes sense), it's not a good idea for everyone to own the P.A. I suppose it depends on the situation (how many singers, D.I. users etc). [/quote] Hire until someone gets fed up with going to pick it up etc and buys one themselves. That's what I did. It was £50 to hire it, but I was spending Sat afternoon going to pick it up and Sunday morning taking it back. So I just bought one and hired it out to the band. .

There are as many ways of doing it as there are bands. That's just ridiculous looking for a bass player with PA. They need to buy one. I think the best way is for one person to own the PA, and take a bit extra (or not) from the gig money for storage, upkeep and lugging it around everywhere. I'd always advise against everyone owning a share in the PA, it gets complicated when the band split or someone leaves and some one else joins. You end up effectively agreeing a 'membership' fee.

I put this together from a very static single DSLR 4K camera. There's only one dynamic zoom and pan done by the operator at about 0:53. The rest is all done in iMovie. I think there is other software would let you add dynamic zoom and pan. http://youtu.be/T_qERv4vDog

If you get a video of the whole width of the stage you can zoom in using software afterwards. This will give a multi-camera type impression. Any decent camera will do this. Then give a hand held video to any old monkey with no skills and tell them to get close up footage from different angles. Cut it all together with the soundtrack from the first camera and you'll get something fairly impressive.

We did a gig a long time ago that we managed to get into because the singer was married to one of the senior officers. While we were waiting to go on I tried to engage the agent, who dealt with all the entertainment, in some conversation. She wasn't interested in even talking to me. I think it's a closed shop. A pro drummer friend of mine played in a band that gigged regularly for the RAF. They flew the band all over the world for gigs. Maybe other posters have different experiences. You'd certainly need to be vetted if you were regularly visiting bases.

Don't do the doodly bits then. Do the best that you can. They're auditioning you, not Geddy Lee. If you're not good enough, they'll go with one of the hundreds of bass players lined up ready to play who can do the doodly bits

[quote name='spike' timestamp='1473420463' post='3130046'] To be fair, we're talking Harrow and most of our gigs are Saturdays but Friday night in Bedford is a regular for us. We do have a couple regular gigs in Watford and Ruislip which will be fine for him but everything else is north of Harpenden and Stevenage [/quote] Google maps is giving me 1h20 on a Friday lunchtime avoiding current minor congestion on M1. If he can do that inside 2 hours at 5-6pm he's doing well. Maybe meet him for a beer in Bedford one Friday night first to see what he thinks. .

[quote name='spike' timestamp='1473418972' post='3130019'] I used to live south of Dunstable and a previous band I was in rehearsed weekly in Bedford. Like you, 40 mins + to get there and it did my head in. My present band only rehearses to learn new songs or rehearse new members and I reckon if we went with this drummer it would only take a couple rehearsals to get him up to speed. My main worry is how keen he will be to drive from north London to Luton or Bedford on a Friday after work once he's done it a few times [/quote] Wow! That depends on where in North London he is and what time you're expecting him to be at gigs. Doesn't matter how keen he is, that's a serious undertaking for a Friday night.

I'm near Stevenage so lots of gigs with an hour. Even as far as Cambridge. The thing is though for a drummer it's a hell of a load in and out on top of that hour so he'll end up doing 4 hours of 'driving duties' for each outing. I used to be 40mins+ from rehearsal space. On top of my daily cummute. It did my head in and I'm now 15mins from my current band. .