TimR

The thought of adjusting my pots mid gig is too frightening. I'll leave it to the pros.

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1445021118' post='2888290'] Give it a try...you might enjoy it... [/quote] All the bass players I've met from busy covers bands have dabbled in FX. All the FX are now gathering dust. And I appreciate technology has moved on but I played with a guy on keys in the 80s who had a Korg M1 with sequences and sample module along with some additional sounds loaded into the M1. The whole lot went tits up one gig and he had to ditch the sampled sounds, the programmed drum patterns and factory reset the Korg. We played the whole gig using Hammond, Strings or piano sound along with some basic 4:4 two bar drum parts he composed during the first two bars of each song. A very amusing night. .

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1444993368' post='2887928'] Noooo, that's why I was so surprised about the reaction - I originally said Yep, on the bass I'll hoick the treble and scoop the mids a bit (or just use both pickups), or cut the treble, etc, etc, and just play it differently with me hands... The keyboards are a different thing entirely - he does like to play around, mostly because he can, and it justifies him having the Mac onstage... [/quote] As long as he's got the playing ability and can change seamlessly for each tune that's all well and good. My comment about trying too hard comes from seeing too many bands that are more about getting the authentic sound and who then get the basics horribly wrong. Think we had a thread about all the gear and no idea.

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1444988661' post='2887853'] Which is exactly what I was saying...for the iconic stuff...I never touch the amp, but I have EQ on the bass...it's not hard... Apparently that approach is amusing. [/quote] Ahh. The impression I got was you have spent time trying to emulate a Marcus Miller tone, whereas you're really just talking about turning up the treble to get a generic slap sound. Think it was clouded when you implied the keyboard player downloaded different samples for each tune.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1444981607' post='2887759'] Happy to be told otherwise, but that's not how I read it. [/quote] Me too. But that's all in the fingers. I don't have time between numbers to be fiddling with tone controls and wondering whether the bass is still going to be balanced with the rest of the band. As Bilbo says, these are playing subtleties that should occur 'naturally' when you're playing. .

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1444932314' post='2887498'] Yep, the actor thing's a good analogy: I think if you turned up on a huge budget shoot and said "I see from the script it's a gritty tale of life in the Mississippi Bayou , but I only do Welsh. I sound like me whatever I try, I'm not Matthew McConnaheyheyhey, you know. And besides, no-one'll notice." you'd be, like our least favourite internet drummer, at the wrong gig... [/quote] I think maybe we're at cross purposes here. It's the difference between doing a welsh accent for a Tom Jones set or doing an impression of Tom Jones, or actually just singing the song naturally. Is prefer it naturally thanks. If I wanted a bad impression I'd go to a cabaret evening to see a Tom Jones impersonator, if I wanted Tom Jones I'd go to a Tom Jones gig or get a DJ. It's an age old debate. When I hear a band I want to hear something different, not someone making arbitrary descisions on which parts they're going to copy exactly note for note and timbre for timbre and which bits they're going to busk. The singer doesn't do impressions. The drummer doesn't swap kits.

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1444932459' post='2887501'] So you'd turn to a friend in the audience at a function gig and say "It's not very...natural, is it?" [/quote] Yes. I would and have done.

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1444914928' post='2887280'] Trying too hard? Really? I've never had any feedback from the function band which said "We hired them for our function, they were great, but they sounded like they were trying too hard." The singers don't do impressions, that pretty much wouldn't be possible given the range of music we play, but they put a lot of effort into fronting the band, which is more important. [/quote] Yes. It's the equivalent of actors over-acting. You can't quite put your finger on it but it's not a natural thing.

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1444910390' post='2887208'] Wow. I must remember that excuse for the next time I can't be bothered learning a line... "I know I'm only playing the roots...who do you think I am? Bob Babbitt? No-one's going to notice..." For the record, when we play a song, we make sure the keys sound as like the original as possible, and they do...it's all done with computers nowadays, you know, and it's not very hard... We had a dep guitarist who just used the same sound for all the songs, same for Guns and Roses as for a Johnny Cash song. It sounded crap. We spoke to him about it, and although to his credit he didn't try and laugh it off or attempt to assume any sort of moral high ground about it, he didn't get a second call. And yeah, I do sound like me most of the time, but when I dial in a Marcus sound and slap Never Too Much, or mute it down and play root fifths for a country song, I don't sound like me. How close I sound to Marcus, for example, is open to debate, but it's different and it's closer than sounding like me. Maybe my standards are too high. [/quote] The problem is that often you can sound like you're trying too hard. Does your singer do impressions?

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1444908528' post='2887177'] We operate an all black dress code. Which seemed to baffle our 2nd guitarist for the whole of our 2 years together. He moved to black shirt and jeans pretty quickly, but we never managed to get him out of his brown shoes!!! [/quote] I bet he used white 4-gang extension leads as well.

I did a three hour gig for one band. The communication should have sounded alarm bells. I had been recommended by another player who told me it would be well within my capabilities. All standards. I was given a number to call, I tried it every other day for the two weeks leading up to the gig. Finally got through to the guy on the Monday and asked if he had a set list. Don't worry, it's all the usual numbers, the address is ..., wear a plain bright coloured shirt and black trousers and shoes. See you there. Bye. I turned up, was introduced to the guys and told to watch the rhythm guitarists hands for the changes, don't play anything flash, here's your money. Standards? Seriously, I don't think I had heard 90% of the set before let alone played it. Watch the guitarists hands? From the back of the stage? A very tough gig.

[quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1444906080' post='2887129'] That 5 isn't all for one band, I play in up to 5/6 projects, 5 a year is for all projects, so an average of 1 clash that cannot be gotten around. [/quote] That's not 'busy' by any stretch of the imagination.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1444905447' post='2887121'] We wouldn't expect any dep we use to get all leathered up Terrortone style but when some of them can even follow a simple dress suggestion of "wear something black, no band T-shirts, no prominent brand logos, no trainers" it does make you wonder. [/quote] I played in a function band for years and even our regular guitarist couldn't remember what to wear.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1444862737' post='2886900'] No one is indispensable. Not even Peter Gabriel, Roger Waters or Eric Clapton. [/quote] I'm fairly sure they didn't get deps in for them to cover gigs they couldn't do.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1444856238' post='2886815'] What about bands that have a "Star", a unique front that people are specifically coming to see? Personally, my position for now is, you can't dep a "Star" Blue [/quote] You can't dep anyone in an originals band. Or rather, you can, but there has to be a solid and pressing reason to do so. The two bands I depped for 1) didn't have a bass player and were looking for a replacement for the player that left. 2) bass player was off long term sick. I'm sure there could be other specific cases but they'd have to be pretty special reasons. I think if you're one of those bands looking to promote the band as an entity, there's not any room to be doing gigs that all the members haven't committed to because it can quickly breed resentment.

That doesn't seem right to me. If you've got a tour with spaces you want filled, then shouldn't you audition someone properly and tell them they're being auditioned? If that audition process includes playing in a function band then you should be preparing them so that they can show you what they can do. You're wasting everyone's time by not giving out enough information.

I've never taken the title 'Jazzer' to mean someone who plays jazz, more of a term to describe someone who busks or improvises around the tune.

I had a session with the guitarist before we went to a studio. He effectively taught me the bass parts alongside the recordings and I took notes. With the other band I had a few recordings and they weren't bothered what lines I came up with. They knew the score and I was helping them out. The more dep work you do, the quicker you become at either learning the tune during the first verse and chorus or creating a scratch pad of well known songs. There's a reason a lot of successful bands on the circuit play the standards.

Agreed. Especially when said band are 'Playing it exactly as per the recording.' - apart from the middle 8 which they leave out, and the ending because it's a fade, and the beginning because they don't have violins and it's a bit slow anyway, and the recording is the live version from their second live album, and they've played the song for so many years it's actually nothing like the original anymore anyway... .

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1444823108' post='2886348'] To me, playing any music is a learning experience and makes me better and more versatile - there is lots to be learnt from the music you dont enjoy playing/listening to. [/quote] +1 Playing in a function band improved my playing astronomically. Not least because I knew over 100 tunes and was continually learning new material every few weeks. Material that I wouldn't normally listen to or play.

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1444821785' post='2886335'] I can't ever recall seeing an originals band (who I knew the line-up of, so I would know) using a dep. [/quote] I've depped for two. Not a particularly easy thing to do! I did three rehearsals for the first one, and they kept changing arrangements for a couple of songs each week. .

I think originals bands are a special case. Even if the band are not being paid, they need to make it worthwhile for the dep to work for them. That will include not only some kind of arrangement over the additional practices but probably purchasing stage wear for them. Most deps (I include myself) will be happy to wear whatever is specified for the 'performance'. However haircuts are whatever they are so you'd be better building a relationship with a set of first call deps who know what is being expected of them.

Bands tend to set their rates and you'll usually get a share but there are brackets that different bands fall into depending on qualityand size of the band and the type and quality of the function they're playing.

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1444739357' post='2885455'] +1 to many of the posts above - it helps to have one busy and the rest less so. Ie, My Ska band are stupidly busy (5-6 a month most of the time) but if I can't make one I have several deps. The other three bands - one is full of other musos in same boat as me, we gig very rarely but we ahve an absolute blast and enjoy our company. One is no rehearsal gigging band that gigs maybe 5-7 times a year The final one is a new thing and they book gigs 12 months in advance - so easy to work calendar around . [/quote] Yes. Any busy band must be open to having deps. I've been in several bands who think they're above using deps, the work dries up pretty quickly if you start turning down gigs because your singer can't get a baby sitter.

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1444733228' post='2885382'] It depends on the music/song doesn't it. Sometimes you can get away with a bad drummer, if the drums aren't that important. I was at a wedding recently. The band were upstairs, and apart from the vocals, un-mic'd. Sax, guitar, bass, drums, singer. The drummer was going easy on the bass drum, and without a mic it was almost inaudible, but that didn't matter at all. He was simply providing a bit of percussion over the top of the incredible bassist who was essentially providing the beat. I just wanted to watch the band all night it was so good [/quote] Nobody provides the beat. It's just there and implied from the start of the song. Some instruments will play on the beat and maybe reinforce it. It's not the drummer's job to keep everyone else in time (whatever they think) and neither is it the bass player's. The band should be able to play if drums or bass stop and should still stay in time. The difficulty comes when a drummer is unable to accept that he is playing an instrument and thinks he is in charge of the beat. I've played with drummers who will go round the kit and miss-hit toms and nearly fall off the stool but when they come round to the next bar it's as if nothing happened. I've also played with drummers who've done that only to be out of time for the next bar and then expect the whole band to drop a beat/fraction of a beat and wait for them. It's just that the drummer and bass player are regarded more as the rhythm section. If a guitarist or singer are out of time, they won't pull the rest of the band out.