TimR

It depends what is meant by tripping. If the cooling fan or heatsink is obstructed by fluff and spiders webs, as mine was, application of the Hoover saves quite a few quid. Earlier suggestions that there are no mechanical parts to service are slightly misleading. Loose connections are sometimes obvious as well.

If we're going to be compeltly pedantic; the Scots are British and the Canadians are North Americans.

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1443009462' post='2871369'] Good grief, so you issue Canadian passports too? Is there no end to your authority? [/quote] Sorry. I thought you wanted to know why he had a .ca web address and might be interested in the geography and people of that area. My mistake.

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1442935847' post='2870742'] This thread is the "gift that keeps on giving". Think I'll come back in a month and see if its still going around in circles! [/quote] It's just another great example of how you can generate huge discussion by making a sweeping generalisation about, and to, a group of people.

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1442994176' post='2871154'] With a .ca domain? That doesn't stand for "California". [/quote] He is in Ontario. Just South of Detroit. He may technically live in Canada and may have a slight Canadian accent but there's no way he is a proper Canadian. I've worked in Michagan and Ontario and met a lot of people who live in that area. .

I'm guessing pub gigs might be closer to coffee shop gigs.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442939046' post='2870785'] Where did you get that figure from? LOL I'm not rich but 60.00 a week is not even close to what I make. Again, it's not a lot, I think it's a round 12K a year.Which I believe is well over the top range for bar bands. And remember we paid at a much higher rate during festival and fair season. Keep in mind I'm retired and single so the claims I can make would be tough for those still in their prime working years For me, definitely worth it. If you asked me to swap it for a 60k corporate office job I'd say, " I'll pass ". Blue [/quote] Ok. From earlier where you said $100 a man minimum. But I see you're doing 3gigs a week and some gigs playing $500. That's professional level gigging. Certainly not pub band territory. As we noted earlier over here you'd be a working mans club / party / function band. The working men's clubs are close to 3+ hours. That's not entry level startup band territory. Although if you have musicians who've played in bands before, like JTUK says, it could be a band put together. But then you'd be using people who haven't given up. Strange thread.

[quote name='Dropzone' timestamp='1442934844' post='2870719'] Gonna buy some switch cleaner. That must be a good start. Anyone know if you have to take the nobs off? [/quote] Nope. Just open the case and spray them from the inside.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442934066' post='2870700'] Well, I think we have established the bar band business in the states is more lucrative than the pub band business in the States. I think you really have to understand that none of this happens over night. Another thing if you truly don't treat your band like a job and run it like a business your traveling down a rough road. It takes time for a business to grow and your brand to get known. While my band's bread and butter is with repeat or existing business it took 9 years for our phones to start ringing than the other way around. A lot of people wouldn't put 9 years into a bar band. In our case it paid off. Blue [/quote] So there you have it. 9 years of work to earn £60 a week. Well worth it.

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1442929216' post='2870627'] Yeah, possibly. I actually agree with a lot of what he says, and there are times when adopting that kind of attitude can be the most effective way of getting your point across. I'm just not quite picking up on any warmth underneath the bluster though - maybe it's just not my type of humour. [/quote] He's American. The thing about satire is on the surface the generalisations and stereotypes work and hence are funny. Bass players aren't stupid though. Some of us can type. So that's the first of his 'jokes' blown clear out of the water.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442932591' post='2870676'] While it's hard, it also means bands trying to make money should be trying to get their foot in many doors. Blue [/quote] Well of course but you asked why people give up. If you have to make 20calls to one person just to get one gig. To fill your diary you'll have to make 1000 calls to the successful gigs and that quickly escalates when you start counting calls to venues where you don't get gigs. I'm with JTUK. You select a decent local pub that does music well and has a good landlord and you target it. The nights you play, you make sure all your friends come. Yet again success in life is about how many friends you make. Friends bring friends and they come back within more friends if you're good. . From there the function gigs should start rolling in. I'm not sure there's a lot of mileage just doing pub gigs in the UK unless you only want to play occasionally in a hobby band. Which is kind of making the thread a bit circular again. .

Which is why it can be hard to get your foot in the door.

The clubs were done via and agent, which meant we got decent pay, but there was no raport with the final customer. We just got told where to stand and when to play. The audience were good but being treated like 'staff' wasn't part of the deal.

I was talking to our band leader last night about how he gets the pub gigs. He says you have to call them around 20times before they'll put you in the diary. Generally not because they don't want you to play, but because when he calls it's not convenient. It's no suprise that pubs go under, good landlords with a business head are very hard to find. In a number of the pubs we play, we never meet the landlord. The ones we do, we get a date for our next gig at the end of the night. This is why it appears that the circuit is closed to new bands. I can see how this would get tiring. Being told by punters and bar staff that you're one of the best bands they've seen and then not being able to convert that into more gigs is frustrating.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1442920462' post='2870480'] Why not? These guys are giving punters what they want; a voice, a melody and a familiar song. [/quote] If that's what they want then not only are you not competing with them, you can't compete with them. Personally I find it awful and would go and do something else. I certainly wouldn't go out specifically to see that. So in my sample of one, a live band is not competing for my attention. It's like football, put it on the big screen and I'll walk out of the pub and go somewhere else. So I guess as far as 'competition' goes they're actually losing my trade. They may of course attract ten other people which is fine by me. We're all different and saying that a singer is competing with a band just isn't direct competition.

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1442917374' post='2870442'] Well, that enormous sample size certainly blows a hole in my argument. [/quote] The other point is that the social clubs don't have a band on every week. Each week it's a different act. So you're not competing with the Karaoke, or disco, you're working alongside. If you're playing a club three times a year, you're competing with four other bands. And the likelihood is that the other bands are playing a different set (or maybe not). I can't believe anyone would go and watch solo singers singing to backing tracks week after week. Although I suspect we're looking at people who go to Spain for their holidays and read the Sun and eat fish and chips when they get there. So the group of people telling you they prefer live music, may not be the same people who turn up the next week to watch Barry: the Frank Sinatra impersonator. It's the only club I've played. We refused to do them. But the same happens in pubs. There are about 10 regulars who are always in the pub, usually Monday to Sunday. Then there's people out for a special night.

I saw a very unfunny one from him this morning about text messages to sound recordists. Didn't translate very well.

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1442857959' post='2870072'] These are social club audiences. They're on rails on a Saturday night, and they want some decent entertainment before and after the bingo, raffle, and members' draw. [/quote] We played an RBL club twice in six months. The second time; the committee had changed and the audience was made up of completely different people.

It's not. The audience is not fixed. They'll look at what's on before they decide whether to go to the club, or stay in and watch x-factor, or do something else. Same as pubs, it's not direct competition. Similar to trains don't directly compete with cars.

Erm. That'll be a different market then. One where the customer knows what they want and aren't getting it.

Depends where you store it. I opened up my old Trace because it was giving me issues. Found a huge dead spider and lots of cobwebs. Might be worth a punt before you spend out. Usually caveats when dealing with electricity apply. Unplug etc.

It's a different market. Target audience. Karaoke/Disco/Duos with backing/Live Band. They're different.

[quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1442755145' post='2869223'] I think I'm coming at this from the opposite end to a lot of you older guys (who have done most of the posting here). I started making the effort to be a regular gigging musician about 5 years ago, I got lucky in some respects as I got in with a wedding band that operates like a franchise so has up to 10 bands out on a Saturday night and therefore always needs musicians. This introduced me to a lot of good people and also allowed me to cut my teeth in the wedding/corporate scene. The skills I learnt there have helped me get more of the high paying gigs (allowing more time to practice) and informed a lot of my original music. I think one of the key differences between those who don't give up and those that do - excluding personal choice and injuries - is that they got in with the better/busier players in town, which leads to better gigs and opportunities, which gives you motivation to do more. I've played with a lot of sub-standard musicians because I wasn't moving in the' good musician' circles at the time. Because I powered through, learned from my mistakes and orchestrated a few situations in my favour, I am now a far more in-demand player. I guess it depends how much bull$#£ you can put up with - hint: it's a lot - and also how self-aware you are. Luck may also play some part in it too... [/quote] Good post. As I said; commitment, flexibility. And now added: a thick skin.

I'm fairly convinced that the majority of the audience know when they hear a good band, know when they get a bad band, but the mediocre acts go down well. And as musicians, when we see a mediocre band we think they're bad. It's a different viewpoint.

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1442728332' post='2868968'] If it's true that there are not enough good bands on a given circuit , then the door is wide open to those with a good product If there where not enough good firms providing a good service in my industry , I'd be smiling not moaning [/quote] Quite. If the bands are drawing a crowd then they must be good. Surely the punters feedback to the landlord whether the band is good or bad. Whenever we play the landlord is ready to book us straight away.