TimR

[quote name='rushbo' timestamp='1442659841' post='2868539'] I love the Bass. I love the Cabs. The hat is ok and the facial furniture, I can cope with. But socks and sandals....for Petes sake man, what are you thinking about! [/quote] There you go. My thoughts entirely. Socks and sandals and bloody WHITE 4way extensions. Criminal! .

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1442662045' post='2868573'] Surely any professional player expecting to make a living playing in pubs (certainly in the UK) needs to have a word with himself and get a day job! Simple economics mean that a pub is not going to pay more than £200-£300 (at the most) and a share of that is not going to provide what most people would consider a half-decent living. The real problem is the number of ‘amateur’ bands that are just not good enough but still get plenty of work in pubs crowding out better bands and there are not enough good quality bands to displace them... [/quote] They're obviously good enough to get the gigs. Next time you see one of these bands, ask yourself, what is the magic ingredient they have. Study the way they interact with the crowd closely. A clue; it has nothing to do with the quality of the musicianship. .

I think the money argument is raising its head but I'm not sure how this fits in with people giving up. Regards 'bouncing around', it's important to introduce light and shade into your sets as well as into each song. Go and see a stadium band and they'll play maybe 2hours plus. Every song is not a full on blast. The band gets tired, the audience gets tired. For a wedding band doing 3 sets our ban leader used to try and put real big powerful get up and dance numbers in to try and get the crowd up from the off. We learned pretty quickly that isn't the way to do it. The big numbers need to be full on all the way through the last hour. People will in the main start to get going halfway through your 2nd set. If people want to dance from the off, they will. Personally, I've left bands for a variety of reasons, but in hindsight usually the writing has been on the wall for a while before I become disillusioned.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1442594319' post='2868122'] sometimes I go for this look... ... [/quote] Have you ever left the house dressed like that though?

Doesn't sound much; £60 for 4 hours. I'd be looking for at least £100 ($160) for that. But I wonder what the cost of living is.

I've usually played a 45 and a 60minute set for pubs. For the working man clubs and weddings we did 2x45 and a 60. With 15min breaks. Although the working man clubs broke for bingo and the raffle. They were pretty much what the agent agreed so I can't see many bands being much different. I have a feeling the MU limited it to 45minutes a set for some reason.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1442519761' post='2867590'] The ins and outs of why the various instruments cost what they do is beside the point, which is ... How can spending a couple of grand on a bass be viewed in some way as "excessive" when this is the sort of amount routinely spent on a brass or classical instrument. [/quote] Ok. We could take Flutes. My wife plays flute. Grade 8 standard. Her flute was £3,600 in the mid 90s. About that time you could buy a student flute for around £250. Current prices suggest around £5k and £500. I can assure you that all musical instruments have budget and proffesional end instruments. Excessive is really dependant on your viewpoint but the difference in instruments is remarkable and obvious even to a non player. Is a Rolex at £70k excessive? My watch was £250, and my backup watch was £80. My running watch, however, was a bit more pricey. This thread is more of an interesting look at human nature and how different we all are than a pure discussion on the merits of different basses.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442427883' post='2866930'] Yes, your right about all that. It get back to that knowing what you want and what your skills are. In other words, what can I deliver. I know I'm not a band leader or front person. I sing and play bass. Hell, I don't even like calling songs. We have a band leader for all that stuff. Our band leader is half my age and you know what I finally realized and came to terms with. While I have years of band experience, her experience is more relevant than mine. It's 2015, for efs sake ,you can't do things or run a band like it was 1975. BTW, I been gigging with my 51 MIJ Fender P re-issue lately. I took that black pick guard off. I think it looks a lot cooler without it. I also started bringing a combo to small gigs instead of my big GK stacked rig. I can use the shoulder strap for my pedal board case, bass in one hand and the combo in the other. That's a 1 trip "load in" for me. I love it. Blue [/quote] You've edited your post since I first read it and added some things I'll comment on. Age is an attitude. You carry it off very well. I guess you dye your hair but as far as an audience are concerned you move and rock and carry it off with attitude and from 20ft you're the same as the other guys. But you're old enough to know when someone knows what they're talking about and not just bull....img. You know when to let go and trust someone else. That's not just an age thing, that's a maturity thing. The easy route is to play Beatles and Stones to people your own age. It works, but for me that was three years of my life that I really enjoyed but I've moved on. I've done three years in my latest band - Classic Rock, we're getting gigs and people are asking us to play more so I'm happy living in this moment. But again - it's flexibility and commitment. When I'm bored or it stops working I'll move on. I have no idea what I'll move on to. Just as long as it is entertaining to an audience (just not corporate functions, they don't pay enough for me to give up my day job and sell my soul )

Keep what you have and get a 15" cab to use with the head just for the Am Dram. Usually you just want a bit of bass presence to sit underneath the performers, who in my experience, aren't loud enough to carry over a big live band, even with a sound crew who know what they're doing and radio mics.

[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1442387402' post='2866463'] The one song which i initially struggled with was Gimme Gimme Gimme by ABBA. Bit of a leveller that was! [/quote] I think Iron Maiden nicked all their songs from ABBA.

We've found that the football crowd are a different crowd to the live music crowd. A lot of pubs we pay have football on while we set up then turn it off. The football fans leave then the music fans arrive. 11pm seems a bit late but you may see the pub numbers swelling at about 10pm. I'd wonder what time you're playing until.

Excellent. The forum wins again.

Releasable cable ties. The problem with binding looms is; what works on one stage is no good on the next one that's one foot wider and one foot shorter.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1442319887' post='2865996'] I definitely care about all those things... massively. The only point I don't care about..because I don't need to, is gigs. I will do gigs but I'm not wasting my time or the other guys time on gigs of a certain nature or even stature. It is either a good gig or it is not. Funnily enough the other guys, who should be more picky about the work they do...because of the work they can get and indeed do get....aren't or can't be as picky. Basically, I wont waste their time for gigs that don't pay minimum £80 per head. I suspect they may go cheaper from time to time..and have to, but I'll generally not call these guys for that money. That is a basic 4 pub for a 4 piece..it gets much harder introducing a 5th member. Parties, which is what the band excels at, are easy [/quote] But you and Blue are looking at this from different points of view. You're running a band and he is 'just' a hired hand. From my point of view having been in both situations it's nice to just turn up and play what you're told to play. Put your trust in the band leader. I'm very flexible, I've played in everything from Thrash metal bands, through party bands and am dram pit work. To me a song is a song, most of them are 3minutes long and don't take hours to learn. Really it's all about being entertaining and playing live for me. From a band leader point of view, I'd want people like me. That can learn quickly, don't moan that it's a boring song that's been done to death, or that they're not getting as much this week as last week etc. I kind of agree that a band doesn't really work as a free democracy but really has to be run as a benevolent dictatorship, or as a strict democracy with an elected leader who has the final say on everything.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1442352300' post='2866357'] I use a 4-way and it's white, yup. It's rarely visible as it goes behind the backline, but it can occasionally be seen. I think it goes well with my red cabs (when I'm not using the orange/black one), and my instrument leads, an orange one from the bass to the pedalboard and the lead coming back to the amp would be, depending on the day and what shoes I'm wearing, pink, red or white. What I really want is an electric blue fluorescent 4-way. Oh yes. My bass? Natural ash/maple, of course. [/quote] Well it's your gig and your artistic choice. If that's the look you're going for and you want your backline and leads to be props that are part of the performance. I played a gig once on a church hall stage where the band leader had set up so much gear on stage that there was hardly any room for us. I suggested we moved the mixer, power amps, his guitar rack of 7 guitars and some other bits into the wings but he said it was a bad idea as no one would be able to see all our gear.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1442341392' post='2866250'] We tend to forget that guitars and bases are very cheap compared to brass and classical instruments, people who I know who have played sax for example say they wouldn't touch anything under about 1.5k [/quote] The construction of those instruments is usually by hand and the tone is very dependent on construction and materials.

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1442342903' post='2866270'] Why has this thread got such a silly title? Surely if it is a play on words it should read "no eyed deer"? (Waiting for PVA to dry, so no, I don't have anything better to do)! [/quote] I think that was covered on page 9...

My Dad lives in Oakham. He plays piano and recently played with a big band. Think it was near Peterborough.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442330973' post='2866098'] The rate of progress in production of consumer goods has been fantastic over the last 30 years, though. Where you would have struggled to get anything at all for your £120 in 1985 (which is probably more like £250 in today's money), you could now get something very well made for that. One example is a guitar that we sold by the bucket-load, and it was just £80. No, the tuners weren't fantastic, and it wasn't made by "craftsmen" in some high-tech production facility, where each pieces of wood is meticulously sanded with finer and finer grades of sandpaper until they all fit together like a glove, but it did sound good, it was made from proper tradition guitar-building materials, and they were very easy to play. When I wanted to just sit down and mess about on guitar for a while, I always picked one of the £80 guitars. Yes we had nicer guitars, but I felt that the £80 was just what a beginner guitar should be, so I stuck with it. That had the added benefit of knowing exactly what to say about it when selling it. There must be some confusion. I think it's unjustifiable. I don't know why me holding that opinion means that you need to somehow go to some shadowy minister of justifications and seek their approval. One simply can't state an opinion without people starting the ol' whataboutery. [/quote] The differences are still there and still obvious to an experienced player. It's then down to the player to decide whether they're important. Ultimately what you're saying is what we used to call an intermediate bass is now a beginner bass with a very attractive price tag.

I played my Marlin Sidewinder £120 new in 1985 for 6 years. I didn't have a clue how awful it was until I got a decent job and started looking at other basses. All the guys around me also had super cheap beaten up basses. It didn't matter. Our fans (school mates) flocked to see us. We were stars and famous (well to about 3000 people anyway ) However once we then tried 'better' basses we were sold on them and what we were playing were really not as good. Basses that had necks that stayed straight, machine heads that stayed in tune, shielding, jacks where the plugs weren't loose, bottom end, notes that had sustain etc. Things that we didn't know about.

I think it's a theatre thing. In theatre everything that's not a prop that is backstage is black. Crew wear black. Just depends if you're putting on a show or just playing music. Back line and leads are all black. Instruments and performers are colourful. (Unless you're in a metal band)

That's not bad. Add 4 par cans, a laser and a smoke machine with footswitch and it becomes more of a nightmare.

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1442320700' post='2866002'] We must have used at least two, if not three, four way splitters (in white) at our last gig. Oddly enough none of the audience seemed to be bothered by it, they were too busy asking us to play more (ended up doing 3 sets) nor the club management who, presumably after looking at what they'd taken over the bar, immediately rebooked us. [/quote] It's like wearing white socks with black shoes and trousers.

Flexibility. You need a certain amount of hard headedness but you also need to be flexible about everything you do. 'Musical differences' - you will never find a group of people who want to play exactly the same tunes, at exactly the same time, with exactly the same regularity, in exactly the same type of venues. Compromise. If you don't get flexibility and compromise from everyone then there is no band. The people I meet who are disillusioned with it fit into the no compromise and inflexibility bracket. Funnily enough, you can't tell them that.

I eventually bought 4 black 4-way mains extensions. 2x3m and 2x1m. I'm a great believer in selecting the right length cable for the job when mains is required. Regarding XLR leads I try to do similar. We have two very long ones for active speakers and two very long 1/4" jack-jack for the active monitors. Everything else is 3m. You can always extend XLR by daisy chaining.