TimR

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1440772063' post='2853746'] I think that at some time it will be repeated, but perhaps not with music. Or not with music as we know it. [/quote] What like digital watches or PCs or mobile phones or the Internet or Facebook or something?

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1440772198' post='2853748'] and that is where my patience would run very thin... I'm happy for an equal split...IF all things are equal, but in the real world, they generally aren't. If we use a truly exceptional drummer..and sometimes we do... we might have to pay for the 'priveledge' and pay petrol and exes over and above but we make a point that he will not earn more over a year per gig that the rest of us core members, That means for big payers, he is still on a wage...but you can see how it can get tricky etc etc .. Basically we pay him what he asks and can afford with in reasonable limits...but that is the price you get for a 'world class player'.. [/quote] And this is where I got quite badly burned doing a wedding gig at mates rates in a past band. The drummer and singer pulled out a few days before and we had to get in deps. Who wanted a premium. The fee of £500 was £200 each and then £25 each for the rest of us. For what was 12 hours out of the house and £20 in fuel. If the keys player had dropped out we'd have been seriously out of pocket.

It really depends on the gig. They schedule is quite big. Covers travel over a certain time and distance and waiting time and rehearsal and performance rates.

Lots of cash exchanging hands. No employment contracts. No tax. I'm not sure minimum wage or union involvement is very high on the list.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1440767365' post='2853679'] Three, if you count ****. And of course ****, **** and ****. So that's six. [/quote] I think you'll find that's from the Sex Pistols thread where we discussed John Lydon's cover of John Lennon's Imagine.

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1440763313' post='2853620'] I'd say that's the secret of good production and mixing. The secret of good playing is to play good, then you don't need things to be masked. I fully understand the playing with a band and getting a good overall feel and a few things will be pushed and pulled, but that was just sloppy. Check this, here's JPJ. It's with the band there is the odd push/pull but not sloppy. Good playing! [url="https://youtu.be/3ANwQW8aspI"]http://youtu.be/3ANwQW8aspI[/url] [/quote] The masking isn't done in production. It's done while you are playing. If you can't hear noises you are making while you are playing then neither can your audience. In fact if you can't hear them how do you eliminate them? We're talking about rock music here, not a solo classical guitar performance. It's only when you micro analyse each stroke that you'll ever hear it. That's why as we progress through the digital age recordings are sounding more and more sterile and lifeless.

[quote name='The Admiral' timestamp='1440764753' post='2853638'] Completely agree, and I would only use them for work which was suitable for a standard screwdriver, and not rely at all on the insulation. I'm thinking more of handles off cabs and reluctant battery covers on pedals etc. [/quote] Yes, I thought that too after I had posted and did a Google. Don't expect them to handle anything that requires a bit of pressure without rounding off or twisting.

Well I'm confused. Is it no wonder that people who weren't there don't get it. I certainly don't think it's even possible to explain it. And I still have no idea why it's a curse.

I'd be very wary of tools that are that cheap. 1000v VDE. You're trusting your life on a set of £2.99 screwdrivers. They may well be genuine and sourced properly but I'd want to have a good look at where they're made. There have been a spate of fires and people dying from fake iPhone charges from EBay - manufactured in China.

If nothing this thread has opened my eyes to the fact that the Beatles invented a whole bunch of chords that just were not around before 1965. How much of this was due to the electric guitar and the mechanics of finding 6 note chords that maybe no one had applied is another question. It would be interesting to listen critically to some Pink Floyd and Beatles side to side on timelines to see how much crossover there is. Because I still find it very hard to believe that just one group can be singlehandedly responsible for the '60s. .

[quote name='Iain' timestamp='1440757945' post='2853530'] That's basically it - the pub needs to make money and the bands need enough for them to feel valued. For me it's a hobby - if it covers fuel and strings that's fine, anything beyond that is a bonus. [/quote] This is a perfectly acceptable viewpoint for me. But only with pubs and only on a standard Saturday where if your singer decides to bail on Saturday lunchtime due to a hangover, the pub just doesn't get live music that night. There are a hundred reasons why you might have to drop out at the last minute. If you are contracted to provide entertainment for a special event you'd better have a very good backup plan - preferably one that involves getting in a last minute band - for free (or certainly at no cost to the client!)

The fuel is a good point. Our guitarist has a fully expensed company car. His trips to gigs cost him nothing extra to leaving his car in the drive. I only pay fuel for my car so at 60mpg it's costing me less than 10p a mile. Our singer drives an old Merc and at less than 20mpg he complained that we didn't get paid enough at one gig to cover his fuel. My feelings are mixed on that one. Especially as I offered to give him a lift and he turned it down because he didn't want to be there loading gear an hour before he needed to be there. (Subsequently turned up 10mins to start and complained how much it had cost him and that there was nowhere to park - but that's another thread )

That's the secret of good playing though. Knowing/hearing/understanding what will be masked and what won't. He's probably playing them 'live' with the rest of the band in the studio. Then dropping in to correct any mistakes later. At least that's the way we use to record in the 80s. It was all on 8 track DAT in those days. So for 24 tracks you had 3 machines sync'ed together.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1440694471' post='2853082'] Where have [i]you[/i] been for the last while? I was concerned that you'd dropped off the twig or run away to sea or something. [/quote] Someone mentioned Beefheart. It sounds remarkably similar to Beetlejuice. Well, they both start with b anyway.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1440678297' post='2852884'] I can't I'm playing a free gig that night.... [/quote] Looking at my band mates' wives and girlfriends, I may take the free gig option as well! .

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1440676235' post='2852864'] I was born a few months too late to actually be defined as a Baby-Boomer, but I'm pretty sure you won't find a single one who has ever asked their parents to stop going on about the war -- we/they know that it was rather more important than four poorly-coiffed Scousers emerging from a 707. BTW, we now have two almost identical Beatles-based threads. so I'm closing the other one. [/quote] The ones involved in the war didn't talk about it. But I take the point about the Beatles evangelism. Some people are the same about Fender basses. And with all Evangelism, the more you go on about something the less people will listen.

The Howard Goodall video is a very interesting one. There are things that the Beatles did with the music around them that was more than just be influenced. The changed the game, the whole way music was constructed. New ways of harmonising chordal work etc. If you've ever played any Elton John songs and understood the chord changes then that's something that just wasn't around before the Beatles. It's very clever and I'm very surprised that 4 poor lads from Liverpool with no formal music qualification or education could have done that. Hence the George Martin link. Although Paul and John may well have just bought all their influences into a melting pot and played what they did without knowing why. According to the video there was a clear evolution of their songs.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1440665606' post='2852749'] I very much doubt there is a queue of people wanting to teach music in a failing comprehensive school for free in their spare time... [/quote] Indeed. Who would be a musician? Saying you'd love to be a musician and play to live audiences all the time is like saying you'd love to be a plumber driving a van around, changing tap washers, drinking tea and chatting to customers all day.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1440663754' post='2852713'] I think a very small percentage of people enjoy their jobs. More likely is that most people hate their jobs but put up with them because they get paid enough to enjoy their hobbies outside of work... like playing live music. [/quote] The link posted suggested. 13% engaged, 24% disengaged which leaves 63% of people who are fairly indifferent. There's lots of psychology involved but a job is a job and no job remains interesting forever. The actual physical process of what people do is irrelevant the real secret is whether the people doing the job feel valued and productive. Live music is a good example because you get positive feedback from human beings. Try being a trombone player in a recording orchestra, or a comprehensive school teacher at a failing school. That'll test your patience of whether being a musician is fun.

[quote name='gadgie' timestamp='1440631272' post='2852616'] [color=#222222]Hardly the same. We same to be missing a point here in that people playing in a band do it because they like playing in a band and making noise etc.[/color] [color=#222222]Can't remember the last time I heard a bartender or a bouncer saying, that they really enjoy it and would do it as a hobby.[/color] [/quote] There are plenty of Pub Landlords who love doing their job and are passionate about live music. Funnily enough they're the ones who pay you and even give you a bonus if they've had a good night.

[quote name='gadgie' timestamp='1440631538' post='2852619'] [color=#222222]Do you think there are forums for bar tenders or bouncers with threads like:[/color] [color=#222222] [/color] [color=#222222]NBD: Just bought a new sky blue cotton top I think I’ll give it a debut tonight at the Fox and Hounds.[/color] [color=#222222]Or[/color] [color=#222222]FS: Black bomber jacket, small amount of blood stains on left sleeves[/color] [color=#222222] [/color] [color=#222222]Disclaimer: I’m not saying that bar tenders are all female, or that bouncers get into a lot of bloody situations.[/color] [/quote] You would be surprised. There are some very dull forums where electricians talk about the size of twin and earth and electronics engineers talk about the characteristics of different diodes. It's possible to enjoy your work. In fact you spend a third of your life doing it, if you don't enjoy it you're almost certainly in the wrong job.

She Loves You is essentially an Irish Sea Shanty set to Little Richard rock line. Paul talks about the Beatles' influences: http://youtu.be/2xjo1eEgeew .

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1440616523' post='2852485'] Set up your amp next to them, plug in your bass and then go and stand behind a screen or in the next room and play. See how they like it [/quote] See if it rattles their fillings loose.

That's not including travel time!

Someone pointed out that all the Glastonbury performers were paid the same as it was all for charity too. Might explain why Kanye West couldn't afford a backing band.