TimR

Unfortunately we're often up against IT professionals who get 3x that for a day's work in their day job and whose idea of fun is to play a NYE gig. There's nothing wrong with that other than if your guitarist and singer are IT professionals and your drummer works in Tescos and your bass player is a Pro player, it can quickly descend into a bun fight. It's a tricky situation that needs carful handling.

Yes. It was only after I left that they appreciated how much Inhad been doing. And how much I realised my playing had been severely limited for fear of making mistakes.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1440079629' post='2848102'] I bet I know who that is... For me, solid is where you start.. so it should be a given you are solid. It isn't the bar you stop at..it is the bar you start at. If the drummer is half reasonable then the band has to be good as there isn't much else the bass player has to really be able to do but be solid but if the drummer and bass player can really play that is where the band gets its gears from... Solid to me doesn't imply the bass and drums are able to really kick the song on... so that has to come from the lead instruments. It can work that way.... but there aren't any rules set in stone.. It is one of things you need empathy with and you live or die with how good that is.. [/quote] I wouldn't say that. I played a gig on Sunday and my playing was all over the place, bum notes, sections that I couldn't remember despite having played them for months note perfect at other gigs. It happens. We still had the crowd up jumping around and singing. They loved it. I needn't have worried, the next band on (the headliners) were even worse. I don't really know why I played such a shocker but possibly it was the provided backline - next time I'll take my own. In any case if someone pays you a compliment it's always a good thing. I had three compliments from members of the audience and they meant it. Sometimes we're too hard on ourselves.

[quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1439986169' post='2847250'] You can call my playing solid every day of the week. I'm also very happy to be 'anonymous' in the mix. I'd describe James Jamerson as busy but also solid - not a single note of his playing didn't fit the music. [/quote] That's not busy.

The PA has to be stored somewhere. Why didn't you think about that when you bought it? That's the real problem. The singer hasn't contributed so I'd be very wary of letting him store it at his house. You don't need bass bins to rehearse. You need to find a solution which involves the singer picking up the tops, a wedge and the mixer and bringing them to the rehearsals. For the gigs, you all need to meet and share out the PA transport as best you can. It's not worth falling out over, but sulking doesn't come up with any solutions. .

I played with a drummer who was described as 'a bit busy'. That wasn't a compliment.

[quote name='Bassjon' timestamp='1439917606' post='2846774'] Once again I have to play Devil's advocate on here and say yes, while its a compliment personally I wouldn't like it. Solid implies boring to me. I play like Jamerson, very syncopated and busy .... and hopefully tight as well! [/quote] I think 'solid' covers that as well. Dependable, not many/any mistakes in playing, no hesitancy, driving the band, locked with how drums, tight. Not airy fairy and twiddly or overly busy.

RATM have a greatest hits album The Platinum Collection. As good as any.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1439838797' post='2846178'] Ideally yes, but if you don't know the other members already it's going to take a while to find out what they're like. [/quote] Yes. That's the people getting comfortable bit.

It does beg the question of what happens if one of the band members is ill or has a problem. That's one of the reasons function bands have to make sure they charge the going rate. Last minute dep/deps/whole band - for free on NYE?

You don't join a band like that. Over time people get 'comfortable' and band dynamics change. People leave and new people arrive. It creeps up on you. Then one day you've had enough and walk away. I think a lot of the posts might be from people just before they hit what they think might be the 'self destruct button' but is really the 'emergency ejector seat button'

[quote name='spongebob' timestamp='1439828298' post='2846076'] This thread has got me wound up on the OP's behalf! Absolute cheek of the highest order, in the imagined hierarchy of musicianship in which the rhythm section gets looked down on. Never fails to grind my gears. [/quote] I totally agree. Apart from drummers of course.

Why did they have to get a pro dep in to cover you if bass is so easy? Did he roadie all the gear as well? Bass ain't easy and they depend on it because the keyboard player can make mistakes all night and sing the wrong words and nobody notices. The bass player hits one wrong note and not only do the band notice but the audience knows something (but not what) is wrong. I was very passive in a band I was in who were like that towards me. It actually started to affect my confidence on stage and I was making mistakes in songs I knew inside out. I was so worried about making a mistake that I wasn't playing freely and enjoying it. Eventually I auditioned for some other bands and did some dep gigs. Meeting people who were actually musicians and appreciate what each other did made me realise how limited the guys I was playing with actually were and that they were manifesting their insecurities on the person who was most passive. Almost a form of bullying. I left the band. I'm gigging more than they are.

If the landlord is a businessman he should run his pub professionally and expect the people he hires to do their job professionally.

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1439750874' post='2845485'] NYE should be one of the best paid gigs of the year and th venue should offer you free refreshments as a matter of courtesy. I know i live in a dreamland but how difficult is it when you run an establishment selling beverages to provide a few for free to the band? [/quote] No you don't. NYE is free soft drinks and a meal and £1k minimum. Come on guys, please don't lower yourselves out of desperation for a gig. Sure play a Saturday night or charity gig for whatever you want but nowadays most pubs/clubs NYE is 'tickets in advance' gigs.

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1439568746' post='2844074'] Blimey, that's the downside of forums; everything is dissected and analysed to within an inch of its life. At school we got some guys together, formed a band and got some gigs. The weaker players fell by the wayside and we just got better. And it's how it works for me fifty years later. I just go out and play gigs, don't for a minute stop to think why I do it. [/quote] Then you're not one of the disillusioned people who are constantly between bands. So the OP isn't really relevant to you. If you did give it a second thought, why do you think you have managed to stay in working bands so long?

I've taken on the set list role as well. To be fair ice kept it the same for the last 6months or so as I'd refined it enough for it to work really well. Now I pretty much just swap new numbers for the old numbers. However, when I started it didn't flow very well and the less well tunes were lumped together meaning the audience tended to get restless. Which is really what I was saying earlier about obsessing and endlessly discussing which tunes to do. Someone should just suggest a tune and everyone just learn it and see what it sounds like.

Banging dustbin lids and shouting is not fine art.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1439545990' post='2843704'] That's a rather limited definition; the OED has wider senses than that, including ... [color=#800080]...[/color] [color=#800080]4 A piece of music composed or performed.[/color] [color=#800080]...[/color] As long as it's 'composed or performed' (that's to say: not accidental, but deliberate...), it can be called music, at least by the composer or performer. Others may not like the result, but music it is, to someone. [/quote] No. It can't be called music. You can compose noise. Just because you have assembled some sounds doesn't make the result music. You need at least two people. One to make the noise and an independent person to qualify it as music. Otherwise I could go outside and shout and bang my dustbin lids and call it music.

And the opposite is true, some players will find a band that is gigging and then mysteriously not be available to play any gigs. All they want to do is be able to say they're in a band, not perform in front of audiences.

Again that's down to communication. When that 4th member comes along its no good them thinking you're doing loads of gigs and going places. You have to make sure they understand what they're buying into. Many people will oversell their band to get a good musician in, only for that musician to pack up 3 weeks later after learning the set and finding out there's no audience at the gigs.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1439543354' post='2843667'] Not sure I agree with that. There's nothing in the definition concerning such. Alone on a desert island, playing bongos on coconuts would qualify the player as a musician, without an audience of any kind. Indeed, even [i]thinking [/i]of jungle beats, without playing them, still counts. The key is in the 'skilled in the science of' again. That skill may be cerebral (as a composer, for instance...). [/quote] Yes. But for it to be music and not just noise, someone has to appreciate it as such.

I don't think you can declare yourself a musician or an artist unless people appreciate what you are doing is art or music. I'm sure there are people who play music for their own enjoyment while alone, so I'm not sure exactly where that boundary lies other than if you are making music for yourself, at some point someone will ask to hear you. Until then, simply calling yourself a musician doesn't make you a musician.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1439507811' post='2843524'] I use to be concerned about those things, Now the only thing I might bring up would be "Why are bookings weak in December?" Song choice ,image those things don't concern me. I'm in a band to perform and make as much $$ as possible. Blue [/quote] I know. But many people get hung up on those kinds of details and miss the big picture. As you say in your initial post - "No market for Metal" - is there no market for metal or is your marketing badly targeted? And how many people only want to play the songs they like and get hung up arguing about something for 30minutes that will only affect 3minutes of their life?

The usual reason is communication. People assume the members of the band all want the same thing. People also have set ideas on image of the musicians and the types of tunes the band should be playing. Bands can drag along for years endlessly discussing things but not actually listening to each other. If you join a band, sure, know what you want but you have to communicate with the others and work out whether that's really what they want as well or whether they're just paying lip service. If you join a band then you're joining a band and not there to change it to fit what you want.