TimR

[quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1444906080' post='2887129'] That 5 isn't all for one band, I play in up to 5/6 projects, 5 a year is for all projects, so an average of 1 clash that cannot be gotten around. [/quote] That's not 'busy' by any stretch of the imagination.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1444905447' post='2887121'] We wouldn't expect any dep we use to get all leathered up Terrortone style but when some of them can even follow a simple dress suggestion of "wear something black, no band T-shirts, no prominent brand logos, no trainers" it does make you wonder. [/quote] I played in a function band for years and even our regular guitarist couldn't remember what to wear.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1444862737' post='2886900'] No one is indispensable. Not even Peter Gabriel, Roger Waters or Eric Clapton. [/quote] I'm fairly sure they didn't get deps in for them to cover gigs they couldn't do.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1444856238' post='2886815'] What about bands that have a "Star", a unique front that people are specifically coming to see? Personally, my position for now is, you can't dep a "Star" Blue [/quote] You can't dep anyone in an originals band. Or rather, you can, but there has to be a solid and pressing reason to do so. The two bands I depped for 1) didn't have a bass player and were looking for a replacement for the player that left. 2) bass player was off long term sick. I'm sure there could be other specific cases but they'd have to be pretty special reasons. I think if you're one of those bands looking to promote the band as an entity, there's not any room to be doing gigs that all the members haven't committed to because it can quickly breed resentment.

That doesn't seem right to me. If you've got a tour with spaces you want filled, then shouldn't you audition someone properly and tell them they're being auditioned? If that audition process includes playing in a function band then you should be preparing them so that they can show you what they can do. You're wasting everyone's time by not giving out enough information.

I've never taken the title 'Jazzer' to mean someone who plays jazz, more of a term to describe someone who busks or improvises around the tune.

I had a session with the guitarist before we went to a studio. He effectively taught me the bass parts alongside the recordings and I took notes. With the other band I had a few recordings and they weren't bothered what lines I came up with. They knew the score and I was helping them out. The more dep work you do, the quicker you become at either learning the tune during the first verse and chorus or creating a scratch pad of well known songs. There's a reason a lot of successful bands on the circuit play the standards.

Agreed. Especially when said band are 'Playing it exactly as per the recording.' - apart from the middle 8 which they leave out, and the ending because it's a fade, and the beginning because they don't have violins and it's a bit slow anyway, and the recording is the live version from their second live album, and they've played the song for so many years it's actually nothing like the original anymore anyway... .

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1444823108' post='2886348'] To me, playing any music is a learning experience and makes me better and more versatile - there is lots to be learnt from the music you dont enjoy playing/listening to. [/quote] +1 Playing in a function band improved my playing astronomically. Not least because I knew over 100 tunes and was continually learning new material every few weeks. Material that I wouldn't normally listen to or play.

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1444821785' post='2886335'] I can't ever recall seeing an originals band (who I knew the line-up of, so I would know) using a dep. [/quote] I've depped for two. Not a particularly easy thing to do! I did three rehearsals for the first one, and they kept changing arrangements for a couple of songs each week. .

I think originals bands are a special case. Even if the band are not being paid, they need to make it worthwhile for the dep to work for them. That will include not only some kind of arrangement over the additional practices but probably purchasing stage wear for them. Most deps (I include myself) will be happy to wear whatever is specified for the 'performance'. However haircuts are whatever they are so you'd be better building a relationship with a set of first call deps who know what is being expected of them.

Bands tend to set their rates and you'll usually get a share but there are brackets that different bands fall into depending on qualityand size of the band and the type and quality of the function they're playing.

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1444739357' post='2885455'] +1 to many of the posts above - it helps to have one busy and the rest less so. Ie, My Ska band are stupidly busy (5-6 a month most of the time) but if I can't make one I have several deps. The other three bands - one is full of other musos in same boat as me, we gig very rarely but we ahve an absolute blast and enjoy our company. One is no rehearsal gigging band that gigs maybe 5-7 times a year The final one is a new thing and they book gigs 12 months in advance - so easy to work calendar around . [/quote] Yes. Any busy band must be open to having deps. I've been in several bands who think they're above using deps, the work dries up pretty quickly if you start turning down gigs because your singer can't get a baby sitter.

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1444733228' post='2885382'] It depends on the music/song doesn't it. Sometimes you can get away with a bad drummer, if the drums aren't that important. I was at a wedding recently. The band were upstairs, and apart from the vocals, un-mic'd. Sax, guitar, bass, drums, singer. The drummer was going easy on the bass drum, and without a mic it was almost inaudible, but that didn't matter at all. He was simply providing a bit of percussion over the top of the incredible bassist who was essentially providing the beat. I just wanted to watch the band all night it was so good [/quote] Nobody provides the beat. It's just there and implied from the start of the song. Some instruments will play on the beat and maybe reinforce it. It's not the drummer's job to keep everyone else in time (whatever they think) and neither is it the bass player's. The band should be able to play if drums or bass stop and should still stay in time. The difficulty comes when a drummer is unable to accept that he is playing an instrument and thinks he is in charge of the beat. I've played with drummers who will go round the kit and miss-hit toms and nearly fall off the stool but when they come round to the next bar it's as if nothing happened. I've also played with drummers who've done that only to be out of time for the next bar and then expect the whole band to drop a beat/fraction of a beat and wait for them. It's just that the drummer and bass player are regarded more as the rhythm section. If a guitarist or singer are out of time, they won't pull the rest of the band out.

Yes. It's impossible to be in more than one band if that band is playing 2/3 days each weekend. Unless one is a Sunday lunchtime Jazz band and both bands only play local gigs. I was in 3 bands at one point. However none were 'busy', I wasn't even playing once a month at one point although I was 'rehearsing' three times a week - don't even go there. Each time I found a band's drive for gigs starting to wain, I'd go find another band, but not jump ship until I was sure that the new band were right. I did get a bit of jealousy from one member of one band who claimed I wasn't committed, I just told him that I had been available for every single gig the band had ever been offered, unlike he had been, and questioned what exactly he thought committed was. Actually I was in 4 but the 4th was as a dep (and I did more gigs with them - go figure )

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1444655546' post='2884792'] What about a keys player who keeps playing the wrong chords, or a horn section playing all the wrong notes ? I once did a show with a cellist who's intonation went out of the window when the lights went down. [/quote] It's not the same. The audience can wince while they dance. If the drums and bass aren't locked together the audience can wince while they drink their drinks and stare at the empty dance floor.

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1444042667' post='2879643'] I think of a feeler as being different from a high priced item. Feelers that I remember before the ban on requests for offers would often not have a price attached, and people would be asking for potential buyers to pitch the price, with a sale only being possible if the seller liked the prices. [/quote] That's a blind auction with a reserve.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1444030203' post='2879477'] I've been searching for a name for my new band... this will do just fine. [/quote] Spice Girl tribute?

Put something out at a hugely inflated price, knowing no one will offer you the asking price and to see how many people tell you it's too expensive but offer you something quite a bit less for it. Then you can decide if there's enough interest to put it out at a more reasonably high price.

Much as I dislike football I have to understand that more people like it than live music. If it keeps the venue in business, when the punters would just go somewhere else, which means I get paid for another gig on another day then it's all good. We played a party 4 years ago where we started before the rugby, stopped at kick off, played at half time and then played after full time.

Did you rebook? At least it's a decent game and not the bloody football which is on ALL the time!

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1443792530' post='2877754'] I wonder if the woodwind section of the London Philharmonic consider themselves side(wo)men or members of a scratch band ? [/quote] I know the Trombone players do.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1443729047' post='2877296'] I meant, I'm a sideman and I was hired to play bass and sing, not pick or make decisions on material. I don't expect nor do I have any interest in song choice or creative input. That is why, for me , I come up with new bass lines , positions or other things to make songs I don't care for fun. And when I say sideman , I mean guys that play in only 1 band. So my point was or suggestion was aimed at other sideman like me that don't have the interest or the option to can songs. It might be different in the UK, in the States I don't know of any [i]"sideman" [/i]bass players that make decisions on material or any other band decisions. You show up and you play the songs that are called. Blue [/quote] Precisely. Our singer, guitarist and drummer have enough arguments over song choices without me getting involved. Tell me what to play, when, I'll turn up and play it. I chose the band based on exsisting material, I trust the band leader to maintain the direction of the band. I've been the person leading the band and know how disruptive it is when you're trying to take the band in one direction and one or more members are fighting it. Making song suggestions is one thing. Vetoing songs is quite another.

The seller is a liar and a swindler if he actually said how much he thought the amp was worth and then tried to sell it for more. However, if he just said how much he was prepared to pay for the amp and would try to recoup the difference when he sold it, it's a different matter. That, I think, is it in a nutshell. Because all trade is based on trust and if you abuse that trust and are not open, it's unlikely you will trade with that person again. I think if you take a car to a used car salesman, you know what the score is. When you make a 'private' sale on BC, it's a different matter. Maybe there should be something to differentiate between traders and private sellers.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1443646197' post='2876647'] Who are these fuddie buddies of yester year you reference? I'm 62 and I'm not a fuddie duddie. Who are these fuddie duddies? Is that an English thing. I certainly don't know of any, Blue [/quote] He means 20years ago the set of 60year olds grew up on Glen Miller and Vera Lyn. Unlike today's 60year olds. Which may go some way to explain why there are so many bands around still playing all the old Beatles and Stones hits. If you're 20years old, you still have to play old fashioned music though.