TimR

[quote name='Huge Hands' timestamp='1425049974' post='2703431'] Hi Steve, I wasn't trying to be humorous, I was being straight. ... [/quote] I think you might be jumping to conclusions. The singers left and the first two bands folded. We've all been in similar situations. Sometimes band dynamics just don't work. Putting the blame on one person is a bit of a red herring. Anyway the last singer left for personal reasons. Allegedly.

My 2p regards singers. Over the years I have learned that the singer has to chose the songs the band plays and the band are there to back the singer. And massage his/her ego. Like it or not, that's the way it always is. Once you accept that, things become a lot easier. The only thing you need to do then is select a singer who likes similar material to you and be strong when they select songs that won't fit with the direction the band want to go in. Pushing singers to sing songs they don't want to do is a recipe for disater (not that you are doing this) but singers will only stay if they're getting their buttons pushed. My advise for Band 5? Band 3/4 but with properly vetoed singer. Then record a demo as quickly as possible and aggressively target gigs.

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1424871519' post='2701383'] And I'm guessing you can tune a bass from a single reference tone without using an electronic tuner... (bringing this back to OP's observation about a musical ear rather than hi-fi) [/quote] Yes. I used to tune my violin using a tuning fork. I've also been known to accidentally knock a machine head on a cymbal stand and have to retune mid song without stopping. Although I don't think that is something you practice, you just learn it from necessity.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1424862897' post='2701220'] ... and look where it's got you..! [/quote] Yes. I know all the words to a bunch of ELO, ABBA and Baron Knights songs.

I listened to all my music on tapes in the 70s on something like this. http://www.argos.co.uk/m/static/Product/partNumber/9091821.htm?CMPID=GS001&_$ja=cgid:12488199530%7Ctsid:59158%7Ccid:200217410%7Clid:94808390930%7Cnw:g%7Ccrid:52795789490%7Crnd:15759072608373656342%7Cdvc:m%7Cadp:1o2%7Cbku:1 Can't believe they're still being made!

A couple of points from me. 1. Is there a cover to protect the speaker cones? I think they're fairly likely to be damaged. 2. Angled fronts to cabinets will make stacking them problematic. Maybe constructing a frame from aluminium and then using plexi glass windows might be a better idea. You could then round the edges of the windows to reduce the likelihood of them fatiguing and the aluminium might strengthen against dropping while handling them.

Back in 2007 I won a Fender Platinum cable for writing something similar and getting it published in Bass Player Magazine. I still have a copy. http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/1789394/Re_Bass_Player_Magazine_Wants_#Post1789394

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1424643565' post='2698766'] i find that when i advertise myself, i get approached by bands that only seem to have read the "bassist available" bit i get asked to join covers bands, blues trios, metal bands, despite making it clear thats not what i am looking for [/quote] I was once sent a request to go for an audition with an all girl Punk band. I was really tempted...

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1424561744' post='2697843'] I agree and still read it as you not having to be a die hard bassist to join, a guitarist knocking out root notes could be just what is needed. The fact remains that bass is probably the easiest instrument to get to gig level on imo. [/quote] It is. Learning three chords on a guitar is pretty easy. So is that simple break beat that every drummer/guitarist/bass player/singer can do when they have a go on the drums when everyone is trying to have a chat in the break. This band is 'experienced at gigging'. Allegedly. But it's a question of being at the same 'gig level' as your peers. So if you're a bass player reading that ad, how likely is it that you are going to apply?

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1424546749' post='2697634'] ... I genuinely can't see why this ad would be singled out for derision. Is any one really upset that a band might even consider someone that has greater experience or ability on another instrument? [/quote] There are a few points. First there is a serious lack of good bass players about. I played a jam night on boxing evening. I was up all night. The only bass player there amongst maybe 20-25 guitarists and 4 drummers. Second, bass is seen as a simple, easy instrument. That may be why my first point happens. Third, when a guitarist plays a bass in most cases it's very evident as all groove goes out the window. (Generally) Fourth, when a guitarist learns bass properly they always, without fail, remark on how they didn't realise how difficult it is. So the ad just reinforces the stereotype and belittles those of us who have spent years working on our 'simple' instruments. Fair enough if it's tongue in cheek, I don't mind a bit of Micky taking. But these guys are serious.

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1424532654' post='2697394'] Don't or can afford a van and the singer can sort out the PA in our band...it's only her going through it. [/quote] What do you do then? Don't you get bored standing at the back playing all those root notes?

Playing bass isn't really that hard or important. The drummer keeps time. The guitarist plays the melody and important solos. The singer is the most important with the words and is who everyone really goes to see. I'm not even sure what the bass player does. Usually owns the van or operates the PA or something...

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1424342407' post='2695264'] I have a great ear. Just the one; looks like the BFG's. The other is all shrivelled and weak. As for TABS done by 'professionals', can I be a professional TAB writer? Can I? Can I? How much will I get paid? Is it millions? It is, isn't it? Yum yum!! [/quote] If I was paying for something I'd expect full proffesional notation, not of this amateurish TAB. What is it anyway?

[quote name='darkandrew' timestamp='1424340175' post='2695227'] On a slightly off-piste (but related note), what worries me more is that most younger people seem to listen to music on tinny iphones (or similar) where you can't hear the bass properly anyway and just sound generally awful. With that being the case, does it matter what you play or how you play it, as no-one's going to hear it reproduced properly anyway. [/quote] 'Properly'? Don't overlook the missing fundamental: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental

[quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1424333443' post='2695138'] Although I'm happy playing in covers bands, I agree that you should try and replicate pretty closely. Punters may not be musical very often, but they know, sometimes forensically, how their favourite choons go. What REALLY hacks me off is people putting whole extra musical interludes in the middle of things. [/quote] Some punters do and some don't. Never heard of 12" remixes? Very popular in the 80s. You'll find out when people come up at the end and tell you they really liked your take on ..., or that they've never heard a band play that tune before. When you've recognised that an overproduced tune is actually very simple and sounds just as good with bass and guitar. The basic idea is to work out how verse, chorus, bridge and mid sections glue together. What the 'turnarounds' are. So altering the song to play double verses or double choruses works, and why sometime you can't just skip sections that are 'too hard to learn' and sometimes you can.

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1424262731' post='2694470'] The Eagles in concert had a reputation, perhaps not wholly deserved, of sounding exactly like the studio album. That's all. It was intended to be a mildly humorous comment. They did do a greatest hits album which is often said to be the third best selling album of all time. There was a financial point. [/quote] Thanks. However, they may be one of a few exceptions that proves the rule. Most bands I have seen do live versions of their song that are not exactly the same as the recorded version.

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1424253296' post='2694293'] So, you never saw the Eagles. [/quote] No. I'm not familiar with the Eagles history, so don't understand what you mean. Either they're very particular about getting it spot on or the versions are completely different? Judging by the fact that they've recorded 'live' albums, I'm guessing it must be the latter. What would be the point (other than financial) of releasing songs that are exactly the same? Just do a greatest hits album.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1424169921' post='2693308'] ... My gripe is that no-one listens properly and are happy to say 'that'll do, it's close enough' or leave out important phrases or anything else that might be initially difficult to sort out. It's not just bass players, it's everyone. Which is why I'm not in a covers band. There is no way I'd use a YouTube bass cover to learn a song - only a forensic assessment of the original will do. Thhpp!! [/quote] You are so wide of the mark here. I played with a drummer like that. Once. I think it's called OCD. He would listen to tunes and dismiss them straight away. "We haven't got keyboards, we've only got one guitarist, we don't have an entire gospel choir for backing singers...". A recording is simply a record of how a tune was played on that day at that time. The punters do not expect a complete facsimile of a recording, it's just not physically possible. How can you play a tune with keyboards on the recording if you only have a bass and a guitar with that attitude? You'd be so limited to your setlist that you'd never get any gigs. Too many people are far too anal about music. It's an art form, go and have fun. Listen to the original artist play live, tell me that they play their own song the same as the recording.

The thing to remember with this song is it builds. Don't play the same all the way through. Start with fifths, just two notes per bar and add something each verse until you're playing like a possessed bass player. Great fun.

[quote name='awdl22125' timestamp='1423921409' post='2690382'] Has anybody any good experiences of getting gigs in London. My original rock band would like to try the big smoke to get a bit more recognition, any promoters we can trust etc. [/quote] London is a very big place. Do you know exactly what you want out of the exercise? As Loz says, there are some proper rip off merchants in the city and at the well known venues. Generally you'll get offered a weekday slot. But if it's just exposure to lots of people you'd be better off heading to some of the venues on the outskirts where you'll get people who don't have to travel into the centre. ie pubs with good local support.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1423655460' post='2687437'] It`s not you Jenny - in my old punk covers band we kept getting the trendy young things ask for Sex on Fire when it was a big hit. Our singer just used to laugh at them and ask had they heard the rest of the set. Keeping in the punk mode, when they said yes he then just used to tell them to eff off (there`s a way of doing this so people remain relatively pleasant, but I`ve never found out how he does it yet, I`d probably get smacked, `spose it`s cos he`s a cheeky chappie). The one thing a few people have said to me is they like the way I stare the audience out, but do find it a bit aggressive/confrontational. It really destroys the punk/skinhead image when I tell them I`m just looking at the audience to see if anyone is enjoying what we`re doing - I obviously need to smile on-stage more. [/quote] You can play anything in punk style. I played Postman Pat in a band once. It was like Nellie the Elephant. The crowd used to go absolutely mental.

Fingers all the way for me. Even if I have to use all four. Froggy, in think your main stumbling block is going to be finding guys of your own age and standard. They are about, I ended up believing some guys in an audition and joined their band only to be very disappointed that their gig experience and playing ability didn't match up to the audition. We never really left the church hall where they practiced. On the plus side stick yourself on bandmix. Be honest about your age and ability and you'll find a bunch of guys that'll give you a chance. Might not be the type of music you particularly want to play, but beggars can't be choosers and it's a start.

[quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1423563685' post='2686265'] Is that MK's brother? He's certainly an awesome guitar player. [/quote] Yes. I could tell he was a guitarist

Some music on my playlist has made it's way onto the setlist. Once I've learned it and the band starts to play it regularly, it comes off my playlist. Music that is destined for the setlist is moved onto my playlist while I learn it but then gets taken off. I tend to listen to a tune until it is embedded in my mind before I even touch my bass.

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1423551791' post='2686122'] At one point, I did a kind of pregnant, disabled Angus Young walk right out the front across the stage in front of the monitors and I was like, sh*t! I can't hear anything anymore and quickly reverted to using my personal square metarage of stage area. So any rock star moves have to be carefully thought out as they could potentially leave you in a musical wasteland. I suppose big bands who do put it about a bit, have bass coming through every monitor along with a nice balance of every instrument , so that they are never left in dead areas. As long as I was in the one spot, the sound was spot on, but the guitarists obviously have a different idea of what constitutes a good sound than me. [/quote] The big band will have their own engineer and possibly a second engineer running the monitors. They'll also have rehearsed on a big stage prior to their performance to iron out any problems. We'll just get a rudimentary soundcheck for signals. Going in front of the monitors isn't the best idea. Keeping the backline together near the drummer is a good idea and there is nothing wrong with grouping in on the drums as long as you move about a bit. Watch some queen videos for how the ultimate arena band did it. They seem to cover the stage but not stay away from each other for too long at a time.