TimR

Maybe he was practicing his hammer ons and pull offs.

[quote name='JoeEvans' timestamp='1430687077' post='2763779'] Another interesting experiment would be to record a track with a band, then push the bass parts back and forward against the drums to see how it sounds when the playing is literally and precisely behind or ahead of the beat by different amounts. Has anyone done that? Better still, does anyone have a multi-track recording of a track they could doctor in that way then post a link to here? [/quote] No. Because it would sound wrong and artificial. Each note isn't a precise amount out each time. As has been said, it's all about feel. There is another thing that we do that no one questions. Internal dynamics. That's where each note has a very slightly different volume and attack. All these things are what we hear when we hear someone who has been playing for a long time verses a beginner. They're what makes a tune come alive.

[quote name='JoeEvans' timestamp='1430684311' post='2763734'] This is interesting - when you look at the audio, to what extent are the notes played by the different instruments actually in different places? Does the drummer tend to define the beat, with the other musicians in front of or behind that? For what it's worth, I've often thought that although we talk about playing in front of or behind the beat, for bass players at least, it might also be to do with how sharp an attack we put on the notes. A slap or a plectrum pick has a much more precise attack than a softer finger action, let alone a double bass note. In jazz, the DB player might well be going at the note on the beat, but because of the soft attack and the tone of the instrument, we hear it as being somewhat behind the beat. [/quote] Sometimes no one. The beat can be implied. Sometimes maybe just the ride cymbal or something. We're human beings and the thought that we are all playing the notes exactly at the same time is nonsense when you actually think about it. It'll always be a few milliseconds out. As commented above. Listen to programmed sequenced music and it will sound like it is being played by a robot. Which it actually is.

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1430680479' post='2763676'] Ok man, I appreciate your links. This one is dead obvious. When the bass player plays behind the beat, it sounds dreadful and out of time and I'm sure jazz is the only medium where you could get away with this. To my ear, ON the beat is the ONLY way to sound completely in time. As I've said before,it has to be about feel. If you consciously play before or after the beat in most genres of music, you are going to sound like you have no clue what you are doing. Maybe it's because my background is rock and indie with a bit of traditional thrown in, which is regimental in its rules, that I stick to these rules. The "pretentious" musicians I am talking about do not play jazz. I tend to suspect the majority of advocates of the term have a bit of emperors new clothes isms about them . I'm not trying to start an argument by any means, so forgive me if my views fly in the face of yours [/quote] Have a listen to Queen's Crazy Little Thing Called Love. John Deacon's Bass drives the song along. Compare it with practically every cover, even a live version of Queen playing with Lambert and the new bass player. It just won't drive in the same way. And that's rock.

Rushing is rushing. It happens when the musician isn't in control. Either playing a hard bit and 'trying too hard' or playing an easy bit and not using the correct note values. It really has to be something you feel. I don't think you can 'wait' because it's so subtle that you'd be far too late. It's more of an anticipation or a relaxing of your playing.

The beat is implied and constant. How you play against that beat is called feel. As has already been said, laying back or playing behind the beat gives a relaxed feel to the music. Pushing or playing ahead of the beat gives the music a feel of urgency. You'll find drummers that don't understand the concept will often say a piece of music is too slow and suggest the band plays the tune quicker. It's known as the amateur's disease. To make a tune sound better, they play it faster and louder. If you find a song doesn't have the energy it's something to look at. .

I have my own personal delivery monitoring person. When it arrives I get a phone call from 'The Wife' - "What have you been buying now!!!"

[quote name='tom skool' timestamp='1430257006' post='2759665'] wouldn't the audience be losing their perseption of bass also anyway? and probably more so! I had a drunk girl come and turn me up near the end of our set the other week, which fits with the findings. [/quote] Yes. But they're not in control of the volume knob. What happens, if the whole band has had a beer each, is each member loses their ability to discriminate their own instrument and so turns up. This can't solve the problem because it's their perception that has altered, not the acoustics. The volume just gets louder and still no one can hear anything. I've witnessed it happen lots of times since I became aware of what was going on. It's fatal to your practice if you're drinking in a small room.

Bands are generally too loud. I have one rule. It has to be loud on the dance floor and not at the back of the hall. If you're playing a function not everyone there wants to dance. I does depend on the size of the hall but you're not aiming to fill the whole room with sound. The best gigs I've played are when we've got the volume right. We had a drummer who always complained it wasn't loud enough. This is the guy who sits at the back of the band. Behind the speakers!

I think you have to be inventive with your setlist and get the right mix of 'tired old songs that have been done a million times before that all the punters want to hear' and some fresh unexpected recent hits. If you can do that successfully then people will cme to your gigs as word should get round. If you just play tunes from one of those two categories you'll lose part of your audience. Playing any obscure tunes off an album that only your guitaris tor singer likes should be avoided where possible. It's hard work getting a band that draws a crowd.

Here's a more detailed study. http://m.alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/34/5/741.full.pdf Alcohol is a depressant and affects your frequency discrimination. So you start to have trouble picking out individual parts of the band. And it'll all turn to mush. It starts very quickly as well (well below the legal driving limits) and affects frequencies above 1000Hz which are the components of the bass (and other instruments) we use to determine pitch and definition. Probably why it gets impossible to have a conversation in a big pub as the night progresses. Also partly why drunk people shout a lot.

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1430216376' post='2758967'] the point is more about how alcohol affects your hearing, as opposed to your playing. I'm surprised that the alcohol would have more of an effect than the deafening sound levels at most gigs these days. If you're not wearing ear plugs then your ears will be as good as a drunks' within a few minutes IMO [/quote] Yes. It's a well known phenomen for a while. I used to have a singer who complained that at some gigs the sound would gradually get worse throughout the gig and by the end she couldn't hear herself and at others it was fine. The gigs she was driving to were always fine but she didn't like my explanation.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1430127159' post='2758112'] But most people who are older than 6 don't want to watch the same movie over and over again. I'm quite happy to pay to stream a movie once, and if I thought it was any good I'll be happy to pay in couple of years time to watch it again. Songs that I like I will want to listen to all the time. If it's through a streaming service you are totally at the whim of the service and the artist allowing their music to be on that service. At least with a CD ripped onto my computer and iPod I can listen to the song whenever I want. [/quote] Isn't this just like the BBC radio though. Technically you pay a license fee to listen to the radio/ watch TV. If you hear a song you like on the radio, you go out and buy it. I don't know many people who buy songs from previously unknown artists without hearing them first.

People pay £90+ a month for Sky to watch that Football thing. I agree, if it's a platform for aspiring artists then it has to be priced accordingly. If they want to get more money then maybe they should mix in some 'specailly selected' 'millionaires' records. Someone should look at the business model a bit more closely. A lot of musicians (even just looking theough this thread) don't really get the money side of things do they?

Try the Long Distance Running thread in Off Topic, might be someone there.

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1430045369' post='2757335'] I just can't listen to Guns and Roses because of his voice [/quote] It's a shame really because their version of Live and Let Die is streets ahead of the wings version. I'm not fond of either of the singers though.

Yes. Mariah Carey. And anyone who thinks they are Mariah Carey. .

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1429804760' post='2755159'] ... If I was playing in a music shop, I might make a contact or just get known by someone etc etc .... [/quote] I think that's a very blunt tool. There's much better ways of networking than playing impressive riffs in a music shop.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1429733631' post='2754483'] I said I kind of laugh ( wry smile ) if playing a standard riff in the shop context, and half of that is that we've all done it thinking it would impress, when it probably doesn't, especially if that riff is one you recognise when you were a kid learning to play these standards ...-and the other half is that the vast majority of musicians I know have an ego...as that is what gets them up on stage in the first place. Some may hide it better than others and some may not wish it to be a factor as they know where they are in their playing, but it is there in most, IME. Someone playing in a shop is nothing to do with my thoughts about what this place is for. [/quote] Kind of. But when I'm playing in a shop or at a band practice I'm not trying to impress anyone. I'm buying a bass or practicing with the band. If I'm on stage then I'm trying to entertain and maybe impress an audience. I don't think I've ever gone into a shop to impress shop staff. Seems a bit of an odd concept. Hence. I don't have a box of tricks to play.

[quote name='jonnythenotes' timestamp='1429633795' post='2753464'] A few scales in different positions on the neck. This means you hear the bass as it is, and will not be influenced by how close the sound is to the original version of the riff you are trying to play. Also, knocking a few scales out means you try all strings in all positions on the neck. Play 'Doh Ray Me' etc at with a little bit of speed...(not the mind altering drug,) both ascending and descending and move up a semi tone each time you complete a run, and that will impress people more than kicking the arse out of the riff to Peaches or All right now... [/quote] That's what I would do.

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1429121163' post='2748291'] ... Cohesive is the word I'd use. ... [/quote] Yes. I agree. I always think that there is a much more informal 'Jazz' feel about the whole program. It's more of an amplified acoustic set. If that makes sense. The kind of sound you would enjoy if it was in your front room rather than a stadium or underground club.

It sounded ok to me. But then I'm one for a blended band sound rather than stand out bass. I suspect the sound engineers on the BBC are proper sound engineers rather than pop music producers.

"Thanks. We always enjoy playing here, the audience is very appreciative." Followed by : "Do you play?" Then you can listen to them tell you about the time when they supported... While you concentrate on packing away your gear.

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1428869134' post='2745546'] I think the band you're looking for were Prolog. They were playing at Rue Point du jour (about 37k into the run) [/quote] That's them. Thanks. Superb from the two or three minutes I heard. I'll definitely look them up.

Bit of a long shot here. I just ran the Paris Marathon this morning. I'm now sitting outside a cafe with a cold beer and a ham and cheese sandwich taking in the atmos. Anyway, enough of the boasting There was an awesome band around mile 24, the name began with a P, I knew I should have taken a photo or made a note but quite frankly I was concentrating on not dying at the time. Any leads? They were really good and I suspect amatuer band as they had a band nearly every mile. Anyone in Paris with a half decent band should contact the organisers, there were very good and there were some terrible.