TimR

They're just jealous because they can't read music/don't know the names of the notes.

I don't use music when playing in the current covers band. I used to in other bands. For me it depends on whether you are performing or whether you are just playing the music. I like to be able to see the reaction of the audience to what I am playing. It's a two way thing when performing. The problem is, even if you've been booked for a party or wedding, you don't know until part way through the evening whether the guests are the type to dance or the type to watch. For a function band I would learn 100% of the popular most played tunes. The ones that are called out as requests, learned specifically for that gig or not regulars in the set; it's out with the pad.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1417796756' post='2624137'] It's like anything. You can learn how to do something, but there's those who have the natural skills to put things together well & those who don't. Many folk can be taught how to make cakes. Many don't spend time learning how to finish them well. It's a patience and perseverance thing. [/quote] Good analagy. I'd also go further and say like a good cake it's the cake that's important. The icing is ok as long as it's not too thick with too many sprinkles. Put it on a plate. Eat it. Make the next one. Don't try to re-ice it or keep moving the sprinkles around. .

My dad nailed it when he came to see us play and I said I was having trouble playing even simple lines. "Yes, he's very busy isn't he."

[quote name='Krysbass' timestamp='1417788058' post='2624030'] ... [/quote] That sounds very familiar. Good luck.

https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070419062802AAOcYfk

Could have been worse. I suspect everyone has seen this Iron maiden clip: http://youtu.be/knC743Nds4Q

Have you called them? Fingers crossed.

There are some basic qualities all drummers should have: 1. Keep time. Not slow down or speed up if the bass player played ahead or behind the beat. 2. Play the right number of whole beats in a bar. The band shouldn't have to wait until the fill has finished before they start the next bar. 3. Pick up the tune from middle of a verse or chorus etc. during rehearsals. He shouldn't have to count everyone in everytime from the top. 4. Play fills to fill a gap in the music, not just when they fancy and trample all over another instrument or vocal line. 5. Play with appropriate volume. 6. Stay sober. 7. Not start fights. Some will bring more to the party but as long as those 7 are present I'm happy. Edit: And not miss drums, drop sticks or fall off chair. There are some right clowns around. .

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1417704159' post='2623243'] Don't forget that the majority of covers bands need a reasonably steady supply of new original songs to keep their audiences happy. It's all very well saying that originals bands don't have the song writing skills required to compete with the "professionals" but IME most professionals are hardly turning out hit after hit, and remember that we only get to hear the songs that they consider worthy, which are generally only a small percentage of the ideas they actually come up with. [/quote] Quite. I'm thinking more that if the inspiration is there the rest of the song should be simple to build. I have a feeling too many people are trying too hard. As was mentioned above, "originals are boring to play". You have to ask why are they boring to play and yet the audience can't seem to get enough. Look at bands whose songs are not boring to play, perhaps bands who are at the technically difficult to play end of the spectrum, and ask what kind of audience do they attract. So as far as I'm concerned the creativity bit is over once you write the melody and fit the words. After that you're into technical construction skills and the creativity needs to toe the line.

[quote name='Jonesthebass' timestamp='1417688411' post='2622995'] Time is too precious to waste on incompetent players. We dealt with those guys growing up. If I'm playing in a band I have to work with guys of equal abilities. I teach music by day and don't want to lecture/nurture players when I'm trying to relax and enjoy a gig or rehearsal. If they can't play they don't get the seat. On a recent set of auditions we had a couple of drummers who screwed the pooch within 30secs of playing, one who put his head down and just hit everything for 5 mins without listening to us and one who wasn't gonna get the job even if he'd been steve gadd cos he walked in said he hadn't prepped but that our music was pretty simplistic in the most arrogant tone. Incidentally he could play the simplest grooves we gave him. I have left bands if I can't work with the drummer. sh*t drummers seem to secretly know they are sh*t which is why they then seem to work harder at being the band fixer. One was bloody awful but pulled the cancer card on everyone. I could play better than him..... That's not good. The other never listened to anyone's opinions and wouldn't listen to me about timing and groove cos I was younger than his sons. The last guy was a good drummer once but by the time I left with the guitarist he was pulling fills in every bar. I counted in excess of 100 cymbal splashes in money for nothing!! It was hard cos he was a friend. We didn't talk for a long time but we have a common ground in bikes so we speak more often now but I won't be stepping on stage anytime soon. [/quote] Playing with people like this can easily make you bitter if you let it. My advice would be to go for some auditions and watch some bands in pubs. You don't have to accept the gigs if offered but there's no problem with paying in several bands. What you will get a taste for is whether the drummer is that bad or whether you need to run away very quickly before you become bitter. It's what I did and ended up playing with several bands and in the end the descision to walk away from the first band was not a hard one to take.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1417648775' post='2622772'] ... [size=4][font=Arial]This thread is not really for the, [i]" I have a job, I don't need the money"[/i] guys, however please chime in with your 2 bobs worth.( I'm a Yankee and I have been on this forum to long. I'm starting to talk like you guys )[/font][/size] ... [/quote] It's Tuppence worth. 2p Anyway. I'm unsure of how much creativity there is in successful songwriting. If you understand how most popular songs are put together there start to be very few choices once you have come up with a melody for a verse, the chords are fairly obvious and a chorus should lead on and not sound out of place. I can see how people can get frustrated when their baby doesn't become a hit but a lot of original material I hear has the basic elements wrong under the guise of being creative and original. Depends on what you want to achieve with a song. I wrote a ton of stuff when I was 17. At the time We were all going to be famous but I listen back now to maybe 30 or 40 tunes and I think maybe two or three of them stand out as hit material that I might consider getting some musicians to play now. But our fans loved it and we packed halls with 300+ people at a time. I depped a few years ago with a band who had a reasonable local following. Their material was very good but I would have changed quite a few of their tunes. They would have then sounded more commercially viable but probably lost a lot of the creativity. Don't know. It's tough and always a personal thing. While you write music for yourself you may only have an audience of one. What's more important? .

You can run a bass through a guitar amp at bedroom volumes.

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1417633999' post='2622533'] I remember reading that our perception of volume varies by audio frequency such that you need a lot more power to achieve the same apparent volume between bass and guitar so a low wattage bass combo isn't going to match the same wattage guitar combo - I guess that when you factor in the heavier duty speaker and a bigger power stage (more/larger valves?) then you'd exceed the £200 limit pretty quickly? The key thing here though is your assumption of mass production involved - a low wattage bass valve combo has less flexibility than its guitar equivalent and probably less appeal meaning the production volumes couldn't be that large. [/quote] Fletcher-Munsun curves.

You can play your bass through a normal stereo given the right pre amp and connections. Just won't be very loud.

Depends if you want the 'click' or the 'thump'. I went to a small gig a few months age where the bass guitar was really well mixed and defined. However, by the end of the evening it was very tiring to listen to as my ears became fatigued. Of course this would happen to the bass drum too. I think we have to be careful.

You both missed the point about the mid/treble frequencies being cut to make way for the other more important frequency components?

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1417610757' post='2622177'] Please explain further. IIRC distortion devices work by boosting the signal in one part of the device so that they get clipped further down the signal path. Surely this is just the same? [/quote] Mic Pre amps and line level inputs use OP-amps and are expecting a specific voltage and the feedback gain is designed differently. OP-amp distortion does not sound like and is not the the same as transistor or tube distortion which compresses before you get to full distortion. OP-amps just suddenly saturate and make a horrible screeching noise.

It's not the act of clipping that destroys the preamps it's the excess power that is causing the clipping that destroys them.

[quote name='Wonky2' timestamp='1417545695' post='2621582'] I'd even go as far as say not only does a drummer have to be tight there also has to be that chemistry between the bass player and drummer as the two often work within a boundary that the other band members just don't get ? If its not there, your talking to yourself [/quote] Excellent post. A point of view I thoroughly subscribe to. If you're fighting with the drummer it's never going to work.

So reading it again: The wages and expenses were for employed musicians to back the duo. It's not a 'band' as we would normally understand it. So the Duo actually made a loss and didn't get paid wages or expenses. That puts a different slant on things.

You can get a second hand iPod mini from cash converters for under £20. Other MP3 players are available.

It's a process of elimination. Do you have the same problem using a different iPod etc? Have you tried changing the lead? Does the phone have separate ringer/music volumes? You've definitely got the music volume turned up? Are you using a regular 1/8" Jack or combination of plugs to get what you need? Are they all ok?

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1417516924' post='2621130'] The bigger kit they have and the worse it seems to get. Best drummer I ever played along with had one Tom kit and two cymbals buy boy could he play it. [/quote] Sometimes if they have a really big kit it can take them 4 1/2 beats to get round it all.

[quote name='geoffbyrne' timestamp='1417514372' post='2621077'] Isn't the whole point of the drummer to keep the timing? If he can't do it then he's no asset to the band. yes, I've quit over drummers like that. Having said that, I've played with some pretty poor drummers with a good sense of timing. G. [/quote] No. It's everyone's job to keep time. If the drummer is losing time compared to everyone else then he's not a musician. I stayed in a band with a bad drummer for far too long. Eventually it destroyed me. I will never join another band where the drummer is not a musician. It will stop you getting gigs. Even if the audience don't know why it sounds sh*t, they'll know it sounds sh*t.