TimR

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1416253317' post='2608381'] Can't see the logic there. Youngish bands playing newish songs to youngish audiences, fine. Middle aged blokes playing 70s blues rock to older audiences, fine. Both playing to their own segments. What are the middle aged rock star wannabes supposed to do to 'up their game'. One Direction covers? I thought that was the function band domain There is no single formula. As for dreams of being a rock star, I kicked that into touch before leaving school when I realised it was never going to happen and got myself a proper job instead. Now I can afford to buy decent gear and play purely for fun without all the crap that clearly goes on when trying to scrap by on crap gig earnings. Horses for courses. [/quote] No. These are middle age guys. Good players who've looked at the market and know what people want to hear. If you go into a music pub and count the heads and there are twenty to thirty people wanting to hear 70s music then that's a big audience. Go into an O'Neils pub and you're looking at 200-300 people of all ages up to maybe mid 40s. Play some oasis, blur, Robbie Williams, I'm not talking last 5 years, I'm talking 20years. You'll bring the house down. If you want to be popular and get paid well you have to play what people want to hear, not what you want to play.

It's always good when you find a keys player who can play in the pocket. I'm not fussy what with though, his car keys or loose change, just as long as he keeps his left hand in his pocket.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1416248225' post='2608317'] Well I hardly ever went into a pub before the smoking ban. I wasn't gigging in those days but would have prevented me from doing so, so the smoking ban is no loss to me. I can't believe I'm unique in that regards. Numerous requests as long as someone else foots the bill? Not prepared to pay for the band themselves? If a band playing for free is deemed to be no good, what about a band that no one is willing to pay to hear? [/quote] Yes. I'm not sure how much longer the smoking ban can be blamed. It's been over 7 years now. From my point of view the pubs seem to have enough entertainment budget to spend several hundred pounds a month on Sky. I walk past any pub with Sky banners on it. IMO That's what's ripping the soul out of the pubs. The bands I've seen doing the best are playing to young audiences (non smokers?) and playing music from the last 20years. These bands are packing the big O'Neils pubs regularly and getting paid pretty well for doing it. Bands will continue to be paid badly while there are middle aged blokes willing to subsidise their dream of being a rock star at the weekend. To get paid more you need to up your game and do something different.

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1416245197' post='2608261'] ... He can't sub that out of the takings because it's not his money. ... [/quote] A very strong point. Although I think there are more and more pubs being run as part tied pub.

But it's also about 'why' pubs pay so low.

The thread is about becoming disillusioned with pub gigs for low money. All these other examples are all very nice but don't adress the op. Sure we play exceptional gigs for free and we play other gigs for lots of money. But why do we play to three people in a bar for £30?

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1416231610' post='2608101'] Doesn't stack up; ... [/quote] And you do that every Saturday night? I'm comparing Fly standing in a river on a Sunday morning holding his fishing rod, with Fly standing in a pub on a Saturday night holding his bass. If he doesn't catch any fish on Sunday, hell still be back the next week. If the punters start leaving the pub on Saturday, he won't be asked back

But if you'd agreed to do Cambridge and the band member had dropped out what happens then? If it's a pub gig paying £30 each where's the money and incentive to find a dep? Often the money we get paid is compensating us for keeping these dates free and not jumping off when 'something better comes along'. For the wedding season in summer you're being compensated for agreeing not to go on holiday for those dates in the summer in advance. Family parties etc. For a pub gig you drop out and no one is really that bothered.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1416222331' post='2607969'] Call me prejudiced, but I won't work in a band with keyboard players. I'm sure there are some very good professional keyboard players out there who are great guys and gals, but in short - I've never once met any of them. Obviously I've been unlucky. Don't feel bad about it! [/quote] I've found brass and vocals to be the most annoying. Often turn up with minutes to spare and ask where to plug in. We did try to fix this by giving them earlier sart times but then they turn up early and just get in the way of setting up. People are all different. Mostly because they've never had to organise a band and don't understand what's involved in the background. The key is to work out what people's strengths are and work with them rather than trying to fix weaknesses.

Regards hobbies. Listening to music, going to gigs or playing music at home is a hobby. Like fishing, you are doing it for your sole enjoyment. The guy in the bait shop is also a hobby fisherman but as soon as he starts providing a service for the other fishermen he starts to charge. If people want to listen to your band then you're providing a service. If you don't provide a good service (even if it's free) they won't listen. If they don't come and see you then the pub looses out. I don't think the 'I enjoy it so why should I be paid?' theory works. I enjoy my day job, maybe I should just do that for free too? .

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1415961695' post='2605558'] ... What's also weird, is that everyone's MD for their own songs. For example, I chose for us to play Sing It Back - Moloko so I end up directing it. The guitarist wants us to play Are You Gonna Be My Girl? - Jet so he directs that. Never been in a band that works that way before! Truckstop [/quote] That sounds great. Would have to have the right mix of people to do that. We tend to have Singer who wants everything exactly as the original, drummer who doesn't care as long as we play it the same each time, guitarist who wants to keep it busy and not worry too much about form and me who doesn't like it too busy and likes to know roughly what the form is but not too fussed if we miss a verse or play an extra chorus when we're playing live. Anyway - back to the original question. No I don't herd cats, I'm the boxing referee, standing between the drummer and the singer.

[quote name='Meypelnek' timestamp='1415967697' post='2605657'] There are two kind of YouTube bass videos: Those showing the hands and the bass, head cut. And those showing the guy. Bass cut. [/quote] And that one is the third type?

He's mad. I've seen a few of his vids. All that with no strap! Neil Peart in a biscuit tin.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1415824487' post='2604251'] I've always wanted and needed a low action... and always been picky on strings for feel and touch. Maybe I'm just picky. Of course, it doesn't matter how anyone sets up a bass, ... but most people find mine easier to play that their own.. Makes me wonder why they don't set theirs up like that. [/quote] I think StingrayPete (and Dave_bass5) nailed it. The vast majority of people just play them off the shelf. I wonder if pianists have the same conversations? "The hammers are just too 'bouncy' on the Steinway for my liking." .

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1415816919' post='2604112'] We were too scared to touch the truss rod when we were young, some people still are I suppose? [/quote] It did take a half a can of 3in1 and a big monkey wrench. But I got there in the end.

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1415791066' post='2603747'] I played a Marlin Sidewinder for three years, with no awareness of the concept of a setup, and no awareness that 8mm action was a bad thing. I happily gigged it and even recorded with it. I think that this may be why I've never regarded any subsequent bass to be 'unplayable' Not sure what this has to do with GP :-D [/quote] Was that at the nut? I'm pretty sure mine was at least 20mm at the 12th fret. Having said that, I defretted it and put a few turns on the truss rod and it's quite a nice bass to play now.

It's a jam. Just play the notes.

Ha. Got a bit carried away there. You've got 16million coulours to chose from.

I tended to stick to chases of very few colours. Maybe four at most. With a decent controller you can sequence chases together so if you build one chase with two colours then another with two different colours you end up with a four colour chase. If you see what I mean. It's all well and good if your band is the type of band that will benefit from colours that complement the stage show. But in most bands the 7 standard colours are ok. I don't like green and the fact you can have several different shades of blue can make lighting a lot more interesting. I programmed in a very low pink and pale blue with slow fade which worked well on slow songs. I also programmed a very low red that I used to light the stage while we were getting ready to start. Made quite a good atmosphere. But now I play in a rock band and just leave my 4 par cans to do what they want and the rest of the band love it. Maybe I'll buy a new controller...

Proper info here: https://www.teenagecancertrust.org/get-involved/news/the-who-hits-50-an-evening-of-who-music-in-aid-of/

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1415222413' post='2598182'] Sorry to quote you but it seems it's a 'house band' with none other than Mr Palladino on the bass. Well it is according to Ticketmaster! [/quote] It's not a 'secret' warm up for the main tour is it? http://thewho.com/tour/ .

Didn't Rush do an album of covers? Including the Seeker.

Good luck. If you need any assistance drop us a PM. It's fairly straightforward if you draw things out on paper first. You may also need to make a dummy plug to go at the end of line with resistor in it and the earth grounded. If the lights start doing random unexpected things this is usually the solution.

Has anyone seen plans of what is proposed? Seems to me until we know what Camden have to 'rethink' it's a bit of a toothless petition.

Canary Wharf is no longer docks. In the same way Crossrail will change the whole character of the area. That is what is proposed and needed. http://www.crossrail.co.uk/route/stations/tottenham-court-road/ I can't see a petition will change this at all. Hopefully the actual redevelopment of Denmark Street will retain the character of the building's facade. The original buildings were stables, not a purpose built music venue.