TimR

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1391622107' post='2359374'] Yeah, well that's what happens when you get old and cranky and start to see things for what they are instead of just going along with them. Not that I have any choice, of course, except to have the occasional rant. On your own heads be it. ... [/quote] My point is you're pretending you don't understand why it's done and you're deliberately trying to find excuses why it's a bad thing. Now you're likening it to being like a frog in a pressure cooker. Another poster and myself have posted real world examples of dangerous occurrences that have been found or would have been found if checked by a competent person but incompetent people have been using in a dangerous state. Surely you are either now just being obtuse for the sake if it or you really are daft!

Fly, you're being deliberately obtuse again.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1391618203' post='2359308'] You're right. But it doesn't say to do anything to tackle the fire, except to turn off the heat if possible. Once upon a time they would give advice about how to actually tackle a fire, now they just say get out. Of course, that's good advice in absolute terms, which is why I've said before that these things can't be argued against. My point is not about the advice they do give, it's about the advice they don't give because people are increasingly treated as not being able to do anything for themselves without the appropriate training. Well, guess what, the vast majority of people are not 'trained' to use a fire extinguisher, so why even bother to provide them? Just follow 'professional' advice and simply get away from any fire, call the fire brigade and watch the building burn down before they get there. [/quote] We have at least 4 wardens per floor, all trained. That's about 120people in a building with 8000 people. I would rather see 8000 people getting out rather than a bunch of them trying to work out how to use a fire extinguisher. Most people nowadays have gas fires at home, Bonfires are generally outlawed. I'm guessing most people are no longer confident around fire and see it as dangerous rather than a tool.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1391616879' post='2359283'] Good examples of the tough life that a gigging band can inflict on gear. So just doing something may not be enough to absolve someone from negligence if they've used a PAT tester who knows nothing about such things and normally just tests PCs in offices. Once a month might not be considered overkill if the band is gigging a few times each week and I'd bet you could find an expert witness somewhere who would stand in the dock and say so. What then? That'ss the problem with all this woolly 'something is better than nothing', 'you interpret what you need' type stuff. And it's nothing like an MOT because that's a clearly defined legal requirement and you have to go to a certified test station for a fully specified series of tests by a formally licenced expert. It could easily be argued that an annual MOT is total overkill for someone doing 1500 miles a year on the school run but not enough for a company car doing 50,000 miles a year. But from a liability perspective none of that matters because the law only requires the car to have a valid MOT certificate after which there's no room for debate. In comparison, the PAT requirements are a can of worms. [/quote] You're talking nonsense again. The MOT is a test of road worthiness at a particular point in time. As soon as you leave the garage it's the responsibility of the driver to ensure the car remains roadworthy. The same with PAT. The tester gives you a certificate that says it's ok now at that moment in time. After that if something happens it's down to the owner of the equipment. The owner is quite at liberty to argue that the PAT wasn't done properly. In which case the tester shows all his documents and qualifications and argues he did.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1391603374' post='2359010'] ... Seems that the current official advice for dealing with chip pan fires is to just get out of the house, call the fire brigade and watch your house burn down, instead of the previous advice to turn off the heat and cover the pans with a wet cloth (if possible to do so safely of course). Hmm. More HSE nonsense? Someone sued the Fire Service about that earlier advice did they? I sometimes wonder why fire extinguishers are provided at all when all the advice is to just run away. ... [/quote] It doesn't say not to use a fire blanket. You shouldn't use a fire extinguisher unless you have been trained to use one. I've been trained and there are lots of things to consider that are not immediately obvious to the untrained eye. The first one being burns from CO2 but there are others.

The artwork gets embedded in the music file if you add it yourself. Otherwise iTunes sticks it in a folder, but you can't see the artwork file in any useable format.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1391609536' post='2359149'] Fair points, but it suggests that the PAT testers have to have knowledge of the circumstances and how can they cover every eventuality? In an office environment I can see that there will likely be a person responsible for the company H&S policies and everything will have been determined beforehand, so the PAT tester is called in at the appropriate intervals and told to label everything for next testing as required. Fine. But how does a typical gigging band deal with all this? Who is likely to be competent enough to draw up a band 'H&S policy' and decide how often their stuff should be tested. OK, so they phone up the nearest PAT tester, but how do they know if they are competent to judge the risks of a gigging band? Are there PAT testers who specialise in different fields? [/quote] You have a conversation with the guy. He'll understand your needs with the information you give him. If it's outside his experience then he should decline to Test the equipment. However, any court is going to look at what he could reasonable expect. When your drummer gets electrocuted because he forced his bass drum spike through your amp cable or your roadie slams a cable in the van door when packing gear away then that's an accident. You can't cover everything, all you can do is take reasonably practicable precautions. Everyone should be vigilant for obvious damage, the tester can only do so much. Like an MOT. It's a reduction in likelyhood, not an absolute catch all. Doing something is better than doing nothing.

The only way to progress in life is to know when to stand up for your principles and when to let them take a back seat.

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1391597232' post='2358894'] From HSE site: The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 require that any electrical equipment that has the potential to cause injury is maintained in a safe condition.[b] However, the Regulations do not specify what needs to be done, by whom or how frequently (ie they don't make inspection or testing of electrical appliances a legal requirement, nor do they make it a legal requirement to undertake this annually). [/b] [/quote] Yes. This is deliberately kept 'wooly' because it depends on every individual situation. This is where the 'common sense' part of real life takes over. If there is a problem you will need to demonstrate that you used your electrical knowledge and all the information available to you to come to a sensible decision. And as above, an expert witness will be bought in to agree/disagree you acted correctly.

I'm guessing here but if you imported it from cd and it hasn't called it Clockwork Angels Tour (Live), iTunes may not know what cd you have imported. That's not iTunes fault.

It makes it a lot quicker to find an album on your iPod/iPhone if you're looking at CD cover artwork instead of scrolling through several hundred album titles.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1391553032' post='2358621'] ... Agreed, suggesting a problem of awareness somewhere. [/quote] It's mainly the Daily Mail trying to sell papers and Jeremy Clarkson trying to sell books.

Select all the songs in the album. Right click then select Get Info. Then you should be able to drop the artwork on there. Any pic you like. Even Steve Jobs.

I think Flea showed a remarkable lack of imagination: http://youtu.be/Vpg3Z_9PP5I

If you're using a decent browser (not ie) you can simply google the album artwork and drag and drop the image into iTunes. It is remarkably simple software if you think like a child.

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1391539465' post='2358366'] RCHP aren't bigger than the Superbowl. I should imagine if you're offered that gig you don't turn it down, and you don't mess them around. That's professional. There may have been a number of issues since, but has Janet Jackson had any real attempt at her performing career since her infamous "wardrobe malfunction"? Not that I recall, and in the closely knit entertainment industry, a large part of that can be put down to not getting the job done. [/quote] Forget Janet Jackson what about that awful warbling that we got last year or a few years ago when that woman did their national anthem. How many people watched the SuperBowl to see RHCP playing live? Edit: Cristine Agrilera

Unfortunately our last keys player wasn't. He turned up to a gig set up and switched on. There's a huge crackling noise from his amp and we all turn to look at him. "Sorry, it's ok, I'll just keep my foot on the plug." I opened it up and the screws holding the wires in the pins were all loose. He could see nothing wrong with it being like that! The drummer in one band turned his fan on causing a massive hum on the PA. Turns out his rabbit had chewed through all the insulation on his extension lead. It was ok though because he had 'mended' it by wrapping all the cores with insulation tape. Then there's the example above with our missing earth on the PA. PAT seems a simple and easy low cost way of preventing whole bands of people like that from turning up at your venue. And they do exist, believe me.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1391532869' post='2358258'] Really? I thought everyone has a duty of care for their own actions? Besides, who cares whose faull it is if you electrocute yourself by plugging into a faulty PA or mains socket. I suppose it'll give your family someone to blame, but it won't help you will it? So how can you be sure your equipment complies as soon as you plug it into an unknown mains socket or PA? Again, it might be someone else's responsibility but shouldn't we be more concerned with the danger rather than the blame? Yes, these are daft and extreme examples, but that's how daft and extreme these things get when examined in minute detail and we embrace a blame culture along with associated liabilities. [/quote] As Nigel says. It is reasonable to expect a wall socket in a place of work, where employees or contractors are likely to be using it, to be correctly wired and periodically tested. How many of us inspect the kitchens in a restaurant before we eat there?

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1391524874' post='2358117'] So anyone can just make up their own policy as regards testing and in the event of an incident it is then up to the courts to decide if the policy that someone has invented was proper for the work they were carryng out? I thought there would be more formal guidelines than this. [/quote] No the person 'making up' their own policy will have a full understanding of their own equipment and what is in the Regulations. The court will use the regulations to decide if your policy was adequate. So feel free to do your own testing and put your own stickers on. It's pretty straightforward isn't it?

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1391524027' post='2358095'] So you PAT test something once and then assume it will remain in that condition forever? At work we have a system where testing is done annually on most items except computer related which are only done every 2 years. I assumed that was some sort of legal requirement but maybe not then. [/quote] Your work will have written a policy that states when they are going to test. They must then follow the policy they have written. It's a practicality thing. If you have 1 PC in a small office that never moves are you going to ever PAT test it? Why? You'll buy a new one before the old one become dangerous. Just write in your policy PC changed every three years and visual check every 6months. Job done. If you're on tour gigging nearly every night for a year in a different venue you'll have additional testing regime put in place that includes visually examining cables every week. No point in annual testing if a lot of the leads will be dead inside a month.

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1391523438' post='2358084'] So on the safety side alone, rather than contractual obligation, how many here PAT test every electrical item in their house very interval that HSE rules require? [/quote] There is no interval specified.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1391519371' post='2357997'] @TimR I understand all that. It was xilddx's comment that confused me. Oggiesnr is right that PAT testing is just a cost of 'doing business' and there's no arguing against it really, but there comes to a point where the cost of doing business, both the cost and hassle, eventually becomes more trouble than it's worth. Camels and straws and all that. Thankfully, we've never been asked for PAT certificates. Do any bands ever ask to see the venue's certificate of electrical safety or the PA system certification? After all, it's all very well to check your own gear for, say, earth continuity, but how do you know the venue wiring is providing an earth connection. Where does it all end? [/quote] It's not my legal responsibility to check someone else's equipment. It's their responsibility as owner of a premises where the public will be present to comply with the law. It's my responsibility to make sure that equipment I own and operate complies. If you find a pub with dodgy electrics, report them to your local environmental health or even the HSE. You don't need fake labels, just buy the real ones. So long as your indemnity insurance covers your testing you'll be fine.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1391516532' post='2357933'] Does the 'portable equipment' actually have to be connected though? [/quote] You should end up with two stickers and two entries in your book. One for the amp and one for the lead.

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1391518390' post='2357981'] ... and add fraud to the list of problems in the event things go wrong (or even if they haven't gone wrong but you get found out). PAT testing is a cost of doing business just like putting diesel in the van to get to the gig (yet to see anyone advocating using red diesel as a way to save money even though it would it would save a lot more than pratting about with false PAT testing). Steve [/quote] and no one would die either.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1391516532' post='2357933'] Does the 'portable equipment' actually have to be connected though? [/quote] Depends on what the equipment is and what you are testing. If you have a metal cased amp then you should check that the earth in the plug is continuous to the amp case. But you use a lower setting so if it's not you don't fry the electronics. Hence a course is best if you have no idea what you're doing or what you should be testing for. We found an old amp that had its earth disconnected and never put back, they used to do that in the old days to prevent earth loop hums. Extremely dangerous!