TimR

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1389473865' post='2334626'] It'd be interesting to guage how many contributors, who make money from playing in covers bands, don't think that the person whose work they are using to get paid should also not receive something. After all, if they had not written the song covers bands would have nothing to play and not get paid themselves. [/quote] They do. It's called a PRS licence.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389470722' post='2334580'] ... Yes, it's now free. It has been paid for. Who does one pay when sitting on a chair that's been bought..? The designer..? No, it's been paid for. ... [/quote] That copy of the chair has been. What happens when it breaks and you need a new one? Or Your brother wants one to sit on?

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1389470218' post='2334572'] Ignoring the actual opinion, what about the inconsistency? Why single out song writers and similar for this sort of deal but not apply it to everyone? What makes writers so special? Why don't we pay royalties on the wheel? or knives and forks? Or shoes? Or maybe we did but they're now out of copyright? [/quote] Or middle C?

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389464732' post='2334472'] ... Once that's been paid up, that's it. ... [/quote] That's the tough but to understand and regulate. It would also mean that some tunes would cost more/take longer to pay for depending on how many musicians made the music and how long they took to create the music. How long does it take from coming up with an idea to realisation?

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1389447089' post='2334236'] Precisely my point. It's a finite resource that comes out of the ground. There is no 'virtual' gold. [/quote] Having currency based on a finite resource doesn't work. We don't all need the same amount of money all at the same time. Sometimes we need lots of it, sometimes we don't need any. It's just a tool. I firmly believe we are going though a very complicated point in history where the wealth is slowly being balanced out across the world. This may take a 100years or more but it will happen. In the mean time those of us who had huge sums of wealth are going to suffer for a bit. Dad has a point in that so what if Sting has millions of pounds and big villas? He still only has a finite amount of time. If he uses his time productively to create and inspire and presumably he redistributes his wealth on a regular basis, that's fine by me.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389446512' post='2334228'] That's where you're going wrong. [/quote] Good news. When are you going to pay me to sleep on your sofa, I'll be straight round.

Dad's point of having wealth based on time works to a point but the thing he is missing is my time is worth different amounts at different points in time depending on the benefit it is to others. Not to ME.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1389445293' post='2334209'] That must be why it's so valuable at the moment. [/quote] Yes. It's more useful in electronics than being used as a 'token' indication of wealth. There will come a time when we laugh about wearing it on our fingers.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1389444281' post='2334195'] All wealth ultimately comes out of the ground - it is finite. [/quote] No it doesn't. It isn't. That's why we moved away from the gold standard. There's not enough gold to go around.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389438001' post='2334102'] ... To me, 'wealth' is a closed system. There is a finite amount, ... [/quote] That's where you're going wrong.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1389378208' post='2333654'] Fair point, but surely a truly fair scheme of things should be above personal opinons? Also, and I hesitate to defend banking, but I seriously doubt that banking has no benefit to society whatsoever. The trouble with such 'cheap shots' is that when the cheers and laughter die down nothing has been achieved. [/quote] I don't think people really know what bankers do. It's just fashionable to beat on the guys who gambled on the mortgage markets. It's like saying all sculptors are evil because they carve ivory.

If everyone's time is equal. How do you work out how much a 10mile taxi ride is worth? It takes a half hour if the taxi drivers time but saves the passenger 2.5 hours of walking time. What about the doctor who diagnoses something in a 5minute consultation that results in the patient living many more years. Surely there is wiggle room or I think it's called barter.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389372874' post='2333546'] It's perhaps just as well that truck drivers, spot welders and sundry other industries have not (yet..?) cottoned on to 'earning' a life-long revenue for work already achieved and paid for. [/quote] But they do. If their work lasts a lifetime, they should be charging such. Single one offs that last forever but are enjoyed by many should get more reward than something you knock out day after day and only one person gets the benefit for maybe 5 years before additional work is necessary.

As is usual with 'creative types' http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar04/articles/classictracks.htm

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1389359718' post='2333255'] Some people seem to be very much undervaluing signwriting here, because somehow they van not equate it with a 9 to 5 job. I struggle to understand this – surely if you create something of value then you should continue to benefit from it for as long as it is of value! It is irrelevant if it took you 30 minutes or three months to write that song, the only thing that matters is how good that song is ! I thought that the point of the OP was about Sting / Andy Summers and how different parts of the process are rewarded? Why does the guy who writes down the lyrics and melody get 100% of the spoils and the guy who came up with the guitar hook that turned it from just another pop song into a massive hit get nothing?? [/quote] Because he failed to convince the band that the hook was part of the melody. All these comparisons never work. People should be rewarded if they provide something of value. If they are rewarded everytime something is used that's ok. If you want to listen to music then you should pay for it. The only difference is in recent history instead of paying a musician to play it, you can get a recording of it being played.

He probably would have if we used his CDs to buy our food.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1389351214' post='2333084'] I know that musicians were less business savvy back in the late 70s when the Police formed, but Andy Summers having been a professional musician since the mid 60s was hardly a wet behind the ears newbie at the time. TBH he's got no-one to blame but himself (or maybe his manager/legal adviser) if he didn't get a share of the songwriting credits and royalties from all the Police songs. ... [/quote] They've also produced every album. So they'll all still be getting royalties in some form.

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1389308627' post='2332813'] You may be right, maybe these lines from the article are an attempt by the journalist to jeuje it up a bit: "Andy Summers is still understandably bitter about what happened with "Every Breath You Take" " and " "Every Breath You Take" was discussed and it was clear that emotions were still unresolved:" [/quote] Obviously they're going to be touchy about it but as the journalist says at some point they'll have gotten over losing sleep about it. A few sarcastic comments maybe. I think one of the comments in the article alludes to the fact they've all made a lot of money out of each other.

I think they're just messing around aren't they. They're all multi-millionaires. It's like Brian May arguing with Freddie Mercury over one particular song. I heard a story where someone saw some royalty cheques sitting on a desk at a record company. They were waiting to be 'picked up'. One was for 'sting' for several thousand pounds. According to the date, it had been on the desk for a few months.

Cool.

In rock the guitar is a phallic symbol. It's height is important. Too high and it looks like you're stroking your beard, too low and it looks like you're scratching your nuts.

For me it's a compromise. If I have it at the same height standing as sitting, my right wrist is too bent and the horn presses into my chest. If, when standing, I have it at a height my right wrist is comfortable, then it's too low to play above the 12th fret. That didn't used to be a problem but now I'm playing in a three piece rock band I'm covering more fretboard than when I was in a 10piece soul band. So the neck pickup is now at belt buckle height instead of b.....k height.

You can get some very good wigs these days.

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1389137609' post='2330657'] Combine this with guitarists with pedal tuners who faff around getting the guitar bang on ever song and you soon have a band that looks nervous on stage and this can make the gig hard work. [/quote] Definitely. The bass player should just lean back slightly, rest his hands on his bass, smile confidently and wait for normal service to resume. Don't get drawn in and never lose your cool.

As I say, you need one person running the show. Let them decide whether the band is gong to take a 15sec break to sip water while the dancers in the audience catch their breath. People don't sit down unless you stop for quite a while or continually stop between numbers. I agree with the poster who says the band should set the mood, people want to be entertained and providing you deliver it confidently they'll dance to pretty much anything. Having an actual set list is down to whoever is running the show. I once depped with a band where the leader read the audience and called the next tune as the previous one was finishing. They had a huge repertoire of tunes. I rang him the week before the gig to get some idea of what tunes we were going to play. He said "Just our usual stuff, use your ears, you'll be ok."