TimR

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1390910075' post='2351073'] So what are you suggesting, some sort of union closed shop that only allows 'good' bands to play anywhere? [/quote] Not really. It's a comment in the state of music. When venue owners are complaining that it's the bands that are the problem, the venues are the ones that should be exercising some sort of quality control. It's all well and good packing your venue with band A's 'fans' bussed in from out of town one week, but then you can't moan when the next week no one turns up to see band B. It's a short sighted business plan doomed from the start. Most 'hobby' musicians are very unorganised.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1390902312' post='2350970'] ... I turn up at a gig 2 or 3 times a year and expect the promoter and the other bands to have done a good enough job in between so that the venue has a core audience. We actively promote ourselves and the name on the poster is our guarantee of a good gig. An audience will come out for us but not if they have to put up with crap bands in a crap gig for the 15 weeks between our appearances. [/quote] That's pretty much how it should work.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1390898335' post='2350916'] ... This is NOT a great time to be a working professional musician with a family, and being a professional musician is NOT a grown-up job IMHO. I genuinely mean no offence to anyone on Basschat in saying this, and particularly not to any professional musicians. I'm not criticising, I'm actually sympathising. [/quote] Whoa! Be careful there. You mean playing in a band on a Saturday night in a pub is not a grown up job. All the professional musicians I know work full time in music. A few of them play in pub bands for fun, but none of them play in pub bands for the money. They do sessions, teach, wedding bands, luthering, buy/sell instruments... So going back to the plumber analogy, they don't fit a boiler once a month for £6k, they mend leaks, change washers, install washing machine, unblock sinks.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1390862572' post='2350740'] Same applies here Jack, I get paid in the punk covers band, don`t in the other two, but enjoy all bands equally. It`s my hobby. Blokes playing sunday morning football as their hobby don`t get paid (I don`t think?) so I consider it very fortunate that I can get paid doing my hobby. [/quote] Who pays for the pitches and changing rooms?

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1390861255' post='2350713'] But the 20% (more like 5%, maybe lower) who are actually really good don't get paid either. TBH with the new band I'm putting together this year I'm not intending to gig at all unless someone offers me money to do it. We'll be recording and trying to build a buzz that way and then see if the small festivals want some. I can't be arsed with spending all night at a sh*t venue to not even break even any more. And no I don't want to join a wedding band. I'd rather not gig than do that. Actually I'd rather slit my wrists. [/quote] Playing in wedding bands is a very good way to learn very quickly how to be professional. Anyway, my point is the promoters are trying to make a fast buck. They're not thinking long term. Get a bunch of good bands on your books by paying the good ones and not paying the bad ones. Then you'll get more people at your venues who want to listen to good new music, instead of relying on a constant turnover of bands bringing their mates 200miles in a dodgy bus. Then you can charge on the door to limit the numbers and make even more money. It's called building and running a successful business.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1390851775' post='2350444'] Outstanding work gents. So nobody here plays music because they enjoy playing music? If you're not getting paid, it's no fun, right? Ah well, must just me be then. Again. [/quote] I think you completely missed my point. If you continue to expect plumbers to fix your leaks for free, don't be surprised if you run out if good plumbers. The thing is you're never playing for free.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1390848427' post='2350347'] Nige, I ignored this bit first time around but now that it's been re-quoted (approvingly) I feel I have to point out the elephant in the room. The plumber isn't plumbing because he/she likes plumbing and because plumbing is fun and sexy and fulfilling and leads to a great social life and some really cool experiences. They do it for the money. [/quote] Analogies never work. Both the plumber and the musician agree a rate. If the plumber does a bad job and the pipes leak you don't use him again, even if he was free. It doesn't matter how many free plumbers you use if your pipes still leak. Seems a strange thing to blame the poor plumber for leaky pipe work when you could employ a good plumber and get the job done properly.

That is a chicken and egg situation though. The band won't necessarily bring their own audience. The audience should come from the local area and be attracted because they know that 'Promoter A' always puts on good bands. Anyone playing the pub scene will know they get asked back on the stength of their performance. If the locals like you, they come and watch you next time and tell their mates. If each time you play a venue you get a smaller audience then you're doing something wrong. If people come up at the end and tell you you're a good band then you're doing something right. Surely that's obvious to the promoters and the venues? It's not rocket science. Are the promoters promoting bands without having seen them perform?

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1390840236' post='2350147'] ah, but even if the promoter cares about the music, they've got to make some sort of profit, which is usually very difficult when putting on an unknown originals band or bands. [/quote] Who is the promoter working for?

I know a few arts centres in London that get grants and funding from the arts council. Why would the arts council or government fund a venue that is aiming to make a profit? A profit making venue should understand business and that to get good bands you have to pay good money. I can't see the problem with getting a band to play Wednesday night for expenses to check out their quality and judge which Saturday night they'd fit. We go down a slippery slope when you start asking bands to bring their own following, fans won't come out every week to different venues all around London, so it should be down to the venue to consistently put on good bands and get a local reputation. That's not something that happens overnight so venues need to build that up slowly, one band a month, two bands a month etc...

Why don't you make an angled tray for your amp to sit on top of your cab? A lip on the front to drop down over the front of the cab to stop the tray sliding backwards and a lip at the back to stop the amp sliding off the back of the tray. Someone probably already makes one.

[quote name='rOB' timestamp='1390796351' post='2349594'] Could someone explain in very simple layman's terms why having the head on the floor is dangerous? High voltage? Thanks in advance. [/quote] I'm wondering that too. All our extension leads are on the floor. Can't see it being any different.

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1390762743' post='2349218'] There's one item I want from StewMac at the moment, it's $11.95 with $12.95 shipping [/quote] Not bad considering it's being sent 7000 miles! Buy 10 and sell the other 9 on eBay.

The notes are a guide. Learn them, then sing them. When you sing them you'll feel the tune instead of thinking about the notes. Well, you should...

Www.allparts.uk.com

Not to mention to get hold of the recording you had to go to a shop and buy it. Recording songs off the radio was a case of waiting a week and recording the whole of the chart show on Sunday night.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1390482679' post='2345867'] Oh yes, and drummers. And guitarists, come to think of it. Less really is more. When we write a new song, by the end of the process there's always about 50% less of everything than when we started. Should be 99% of course, but that's just my opinion... [/quote] That's exactly how Booker T and the MGs (Duck Dunn) wrote. Record a day jamming, go away and listen to the recordings and strip the songs right back down to basics.

You can never have enough cowbell. Discussions about keyboard sounds in my old band used to go round in circles with the drummer complaining that they weren't exactly like the original. In the end we came to a compromise that we'd stick with the best of the sounds on the keyboard and make the songs slightly different sounding to the original. This worked quite well, using piano, Hammond, and strings only. However, the drummer still made passing remarks about the keys player buying a new keyboard with better sounds. Until, we did Honky Tonk Woman, when the tables were turned. "You need to buy a different cowbell, that's not what it sounds like on the record..." Then the bell at the beginning of baggy trousers... Ha!

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1390344983' post='2344456'] See, he can play. Why not have more good basslines? Adam Clayton has more good basslines than he does! [/quote] You don't think he writes his own lines? That's what I would call plodding but then the drummer and guitarist are plodding too. The whole song is a standard rock song.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1390343953' post='2344434'] I'd never said that they're all straight 8 basslines, it's bands that have the poor bassist as a filler & provide a simple bassline that sits in & doesn't do much else. Fine if you're getting paid to provide those basslines, but to play them all night for a beer? Another fine example is a band that I really like, REM. Poor Mr Mills is a great bassist, but how many of us on here have you heard say they want to play just like him? Duck Dunn & Pino Palladino are 2 examples of bassists that have provided basslines that are just what the song requires. Do they plod? [/quote] I've played REM's Losing My Religion that's not particularly 'ploddy', it moves quite a bit. The problem is the more instruments you add the simpler the arrangement tends to be to avoid treading on each other's lines. If the bass is going to wander off and do something interesting it has to fit wig what others are playing (harmony, counter part, unison etc) and some other instrument needs to be solid if the bass isn't taking a traditional approach. We've all heard bands where everyone seems to be playing a different song. Duck Dunn will more often than not have strong rhythm guitar somewhere.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1390338567' post='2344306'] They can be fun & there's a lot of ways to play a straight 8, but what if every song in your set list was so simple to play that there was no challenge (that's regardless of your ability)? Don't you think by the end of the set you'd be plodding rather than playing? ... [/quote] But, as I posted further up thread, not even ZZTop, Stereophonics, Muse, Status Quo, Rush, U2 etc, have setlists entirely of songs with straight 8 bass lines. Is Rocking in the Free World straight 8s? I've certainly heard some bass players murder it by plodding. I'm sure I don't play straight 8 roots.

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1390324135' post='2344081'] Ask on basschat , it will only be opinions anyhow though [/quote] That's what the op did. Just worded it badly.

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1390309163' post='2343791'] Simple it has Yamaha, Squier, Ibanez or Vintage on the headstock. (OK I missed a few) Successful brands are successful for a reason. [/quote] I'm not sure it's that simple. How do you know which brands are good and which are just names. Personally I would try as many basses as possible working up the range of each manufacturer until you can't tell the difference in quality between two basses in different price ranges. Then drop back down until you can't equate the step up in price with the step up in quality. When I bought my last bass I got up to £3200 before I couldn't tell the difference. I dropped back down to £800 as I couldn't justify spending the difference. Ie the £800 did and felt what I thought it was worth to me. Then I found a bass for £400 that was better quality than the £800. Unfortunately you just have to learn these things. Some learn by buying and selling, I learned by just holding out until I was sure. About 7 years between deciding I needed a new bass and actually buying one. Currently 11 years on my present bass.

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1390305067' post='2343718'] Im confused what this thread is about , but if it is indeed about budget basses being sold in shops, then my views are there are plenty of budget basses around that are perfectly good gigging basses , I had a VMJ , lovely player, you could pick fault with the pickups if you where being picky , but very picky you'd be. Sorry if this was about bananas though. [/quote] How can you tell the difference between sub £200 basses so that you get the most for your money and don't end up with a beginner bass.

[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1390222636' post='2342711'] ... Of course trying stuff out is great, but again you can only try what they have and shops tend to be fronts for a particular brand, whether or not it's any good, and because they are shops you are likely worse off in terms of value for money. [/quote] Shops aren't 'fronts' for a certain brand 'whether or not it's any good' When someone stocks their shop they are often given a minimum level for their account. So someone who wants to sell Yamaha basses for example might have to spend £10k a year with Yamaha in order for Yamaha to agree to open an account and supply instruments. It is obviously more attractive to stock equipment from companies like fender, Yamaha and Warwick who make basses and amps than companies that only make basses. £10k is just a figure I've plucked out of the air, I suspect it's a lot higher and different for each manufacturer. In essence you can't go to fender and open an account and just ask for a red Jazz and a black P, then go to Ibanez and ask for an SR200 in blue.