TimR

[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1371396158' post='2113316'] This big time. I occasionally do sessions for a local studio. I turn up with my bass and a lead, I plug straight into a preamp, and I listen to the song, and play 3 or 4 attempts. This literally takes not much more time that playing the songs 3 or 4 times. The work though is done by the producer, who then cuts and pastes bits from each take making up a full track with the best bits. I can get the cd and I wouldnt recognise myself. Does it bother me? Nope, it sounds good and i get paid.... cant complain! [/quote] Indeed. AND you got credited so if someone is after a bass player in your style you might get a call. You can then chose to be upfront and say you wrote the main bass riffs but a few of the fills were added after (or not) as you see fit. Who is to say the next guy won't do exactly the same anyway.

[quote name='bremen' timestamp='1371392087' post='2113248'] If this is true*, how come bass sounds so good in headphones, where the source is just a couple of centimetres from the eardrum? * it isn't. Where's Bill when we need him? [/quote] Psycoacoustics also plays a part. The headphones don't actually produce the lowest frequencies. Your brain just makes it up because you hear the higher harmonics 2xf 3xf etc. so you know the fundamental should be present. It's known as the missing fundamental.

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1371345856' post='2112854'] It would work if you were in a field or in the desert. EDIT: on a windless day. [/quote] No. It is important to understand the nature of longitudinal waves and what the 'sine wave' represents. First on a google search presents a very good explanation of a free sound wave. http://www.physicsclassroom.com/Class/sound/u11l1c.cfm

[quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1371335637' post='2112794'] I'm going to do a bit of maths, which will probably be flawed. I'm going to use the frequency 37Hz just because that happens to be the lowest part of the frequency response of the cabinet I use (BF S12T). 37Hz is, as we know, 37 cycles per second. Which means it takes 0.0270270 (etc) seconds (1/37) for one cycle at that frequency. The speed of sound is roughly 340m/s depending on temperature/altitude variables etc. 340 x 0.0270270 (etc) equals 9.19. So if I've done this correctly, a full cycle of the lowest frequency that my cabinet kicks out takes 9.2 meters to occur. I suppose if I've done that correctly it explains why distance makes low frequencies sound better. [/quote] But what does that have to do with anything. That's only relevant in a standing wave and just means that there will be nodes when the room is a multiple of whole, half, quater, etcl number of wavelengths long. It has much more to do with room size and where you're standing than just being further away from your cab.

Don't forget Mission Impossible. Each character has a 'theme' whenever they're on set the music changes, brilliance. The CD is a must have.

Geddy Lee Sting Peter Trewais (sp?) The Ox Roger Waters Adam Calyton (ducks and runs for cover) Steve Harris

Singers sound different. They've all got the same equipment, brain, vocal chords, lungs, etc. Why shouldn't bass players sound different?

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1371227137' post='2111478'] We have gone right off track with the original post. he was asking how you get a decent sound. A few people said its down to how you play, but I say its down to how you buy, because I can play fine and I find a difference in my sound when I buy different gear...simples! [/quote] You are possibly looking at it from the wrong angle. He's saying that you have to have a good sound at source. No end of fancy gear will 'fix' bad technique. The big names have the option of buying any gear they want. The only variable is the player. The one thing you can change that will make the biggest difference to your track. Especially when they tell you they're going to DI you, just bring a P bass...

Practice is cheating.

Good thread. Leave it a few weeks then post a poll containing the top 10 so we can vote them into order. No mention of Lee Pomeroy yet?

[quote name='iconic' timestamp='1371238609' post='2111718'] Ok, this is good cheers guys .....the bit about this "no it doesnt its because the speaker is by my knees" bit is a tad confusing and yes ive seen close mic'd speakers for recording but ...if i kneel down close to the speaker and inch backwards down my room i do hear a difference and then seem to hit a sweetspot that doesnt seem to change the further back i go within reason, my cables 15m ..... hope the neighbours arent watching this!?! this is with my 1x15".....i'll try it with my 2x10" tomorrow and see if distance changes? [/quote] You're in a small square room. The air bounces of the far wall and 'crashes' into the air coming directly from the speaker. This will create what's known as a standing wave. Different points along that wave will have different sweet spots depending on the frequency and where you stand. Big venues and outside this will be a non issue. Try tilting your cab back slightly and angle it slightly so it doesn't project at 90 degrees to a wall. Ideally your cab should have its back close to a wall. This will stop reflections from the back wall interfering with the direct sound from the cab. (covered in a later post no doubt).

Hmm. I was there in '88. I also saw them in 2011 at the O2. There's a huge back catalogue but I would be surprised if they play much of it. They've moved on quite a bit. Think I have too now...

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1371236071' post='2111669'] ... and low frequency sound has it's own peculiarities that only someone much more scientific than me ( grade 3 CSE in Physics ) would be able to explain . [/quote] High frequencies are more directional and low frequencies are less directional. High frequencies will bounce off small hard objects, low frequencies will just go round them.

It doesn't. Usually it's because the speakers are pointing at your knees. Think of the speaker as a torch shining sound out. The further away you are the more likely it is that your ears will be in the "beam". The sound wave is a compression wave, the air sucks and blows, it's not a longitudinal standing wave like you get in a string going up and down. Unless you get the wave bouncing back off a wall. Then you get all sorts of other issues.

[quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1371211778' post='2111242'] What I find is that to get to a comfortable level where the bass is sitting nicely under the guitars and balanced to the drums, the master control on my head is on '5'. Turning up beyond that produces little more in the way of volume. I was kind of expecting my master to be on 2 or 3 leaving me plenty of headroom. Despite the H&K head claiming to be 600w and the Schroeder claiming to be very efficient, I seem to be driving the amp quite hard just to get to gig level where I thought I'd just be tickling it. [/quote] As I say, it's all about frequencies. You 2x12" will have excellent bass response due to coupling of the speakers and good excursion. All the power will be going where you want it, into the bass frequencies which don't sound loud. Put the same power into something that is strongly EQd in the 1000-2000Hz region and has no bottom end because of poor excursion so that's all EQd out then all that power is going into a frequency region that will be painfully loud. It's why people keep harping on here about boosting the mids to cut through.

Flecher Munson: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves[/url] A 1x10" can easily sound much louder than a 2x12". But do you want it to 'sound loud' or do you want it to fit in with what the music is doing?

I suppose it also depends on what you are hoping to achieve from the recording. Is it a vehicle for you to get pub gigs? Then it should be warts and all live. Is it for you as a reminder to what you sounded like when you were in a band? Or for deps to use to learn from? Then spend time recording your best most polished performance and drop back in to fix bad notes, missed fills etc. Is it to get corporate and wedding gigs? Then the whole lot - vocal autotune, vocal harmony overdubs, guitar playing under guitar solo, additional percussion... Is it a promo to get a record deal? Sky's the limit, forget trying to do any of it live.

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1371136409' post='2110341'] Yes - but.... what is the music on your favourite live albums?? More than often it's a live version of a previous studio recording. There's a reason for that. No need for a chicken/egg debate on this one - the art comes before the craftsmanship. [/quote] Erm. The live bit comes before the recording. Always. The recording is of someone playing. Is it not?

As Skank says sometimes what you produce live will sound 'empty' when recorded. But it's true the other way round and live a song can be far too busy. Two versions of a song. One you can play live, pared down to the basics, even missing drum or bass fills if they just add to general overbusyness (is that even a word, it should be!) I saw Rush last month - far too much going on that is on the album and you just can't hear properly live. A good song is the words and melody, everything else is just production.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1371033871' post='2108812'] I'd disagree with the last part. He won't have a magic wand, but it is his job to give the band a good monitor mix on stage. [/quote] That's the monitor sound man's job, not the FOH sound man's job. If it's the same guy AND you have time and the venue is big enough to have separate mixes fine. What the article is saying is that frequently what the artist wants to hear are different to what the audience wants to hear. What do I want to hear? I probably only need a touch of vocals and touch of guitar from my monitor, I need quite a lot of top end on my bass so I'm not buried in a wall of guitar. This is different to what the audience wants to hear. As I say, outside or big venues are usually Ok. As has been said get into a medium size club and the soundguy looks like a muppet. Why? Because you need to have much smaller backline to maintain the tone without the volume.

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1371029108' post='2108724'] Bottom line -- I go with whatever the sound guy recommends, but if it doesn't sound good to me, I don't want an argument about it. I don't want to hear that it sounds good "in the audience." To me, that's just saying that he wants his job to be easier when in fact , his job is to give me what I need and then make it sound as good as possible. The "tech" side of it is irrelevant to that fact. [/quote] To be clear, it's the FOH sound guy's job to make it sound good for the audience, not his job to make it sound good to the band. We're there to entertain the audience and if it sounds bad to the audience because each member of the band wants to be louder than each other then you're in a really bad place. The backline or if you're lucky, the IEMs or monitor mix are for the band. It's the intermediate size gigs where the size of the backline will affect the FOH mix where all the problems occur. If you're doing one of those type of gigs or regularly doing them you need to asses whether your choice of backline is appropriate as it will be affecting 'your sound' as far as that's not what the audience are going to be hearing.

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1370856143' post='2106221'] The "Theory and Technique" forum can be scrapped so.... [/quote] That's exactly what I was thinking. Like any players you can get good bass players and bad bass players. I've played with guitarists who don't know what a G# is and would argue there was no such thing. There are also lots of (bass?) players who've spent years copying records and playing by ear who don't even know the names of the notes. It's a kind of back handed compliment. I had the same open mouthed response from my band when I told them that one chord should be a sus4 chord. The two guitarists had to get their chord books out. Then there were the discussions I got into when I wanted to play a G on a Em chord that they were insisting was a major and why was I trying to play a G, I should be playing E! I blame it on the previous bass players he's played with...

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1370903433' post='2107369'] Personally (and your view may vary) I can't see much point in having an instrument too valuable or delicate to play at a gig (I don't have the distraction of studio work), though the degree of watchfulness obviously varies with the value/replaceability of the instrument. That's relatively easy to say for my basses, the most expensive being around £600 second hand, though not readily replaceable (US Fender Urge Mk1). However I can say that I take the same attitude with my anglo concertina which would cost many times that to replace (if I could find one), and is eminently stealable. Actually having thought about this makes me realise how cheap playing (electric) bass is relative to some instruments. For well under 1K you can get a bass that will hold its own in the most demanding of professional situations. I don't think there are many conventional (non electric) instruments for which you could say that. [/quote] I think if you know what you are buying, there are a lot of second hand bargains to be had. I bought a lovey Aria Pro II for £130 for a beginner friend of mine. The frets were gunged up, the next had a bow, the strings were rusty. I gave him a set of my second hand strings, sorted out the bow, and left him to clean the gunge out of the frets with a toothbrush. The result is a bass I would be happy to gig as my main bass.

One of the criteria I used when buying my bass was; would I be happy gigging it?

Indeed. I think you'll find I specifically mentioned the big venues. It has always been illegal to sell to or attempt to buy for someone who is drunk. You only need a personal licence for the manager so the big chain pubs can move staff around and not have to license one person to a particular premises. Maybe (forbid the thought) big venues are trying to protect their managers by ensuring the person at the point of sale has more responsibilty.