TimR

I have a recording on tape of a band I was in in 1987. I copied onto CD. It's a piece of my history. I can't recreate that music in any other way. The 'musicians' who made the recording are either pro, semi-pro, or have given up entirely. I would have to splash out some serious money to get a band to spend time transcribing and learning what are probably half decent songs. There's thousands of us like that. How many family photos do you have around? For £100 you could get someone to multi-track record a gig, take it away and produce a good 'warts an all' recording.

[quote name='barkin' timestamp='1367437870' post='2065733'] I'm rehearsing regularly ATM (2 new members, and some new material) and thoroughly enjoying it. Am I just in a band, or am I actually in a band? [/quote] It really depends on why you're rehearsing. There are three scenarios. 1. You're rehearsing because you enjoy playing in a band. You might get some gigs but none of you are that bothered. 2. You're rehearsing because you have a solid plan, a list of songs, a list of potential gigs, and you all want to gig. 3. You're rehearsing because you think being in a band is a cool thing to tell your mates, you've discussed what tunes to play but can't really all agree on any definites, you've got big plans to do loads of gigs at big venues. Tomorrow. If it's 1 or 2, you're in a band, if it's 3, you're not.

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1367420217' post='2065424'] You know... I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only one on here who LIKES rehearsing! The reason, I get to hang out with people I like and play music and have a laugh. Having done that we can go play some gigs too [/quote] That's not rehearsing. That's "being in a band". I do that on a Tuesday. It's fun, we don't need to do it, it gets us out of the house. My proper band are out gigging not in rehearsing.

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1367400533' post='2065048'] ... Those with a few years under the belt know that all learning is done at home to the record, no made up "improved" guitar solos and no made up drum fills. The band only needs to come together to break the mojo of gigging, the material is learnt at home to the record in two or three blocks. These are things that take 30 years to learn. [/quote] I think the problem is we may have been playing in bands for 30years, but there is a vast difference in experiences. I've been in about 10bands and played with a few hundred musicians. If you need a written wish list then you probably haven't picked up the nessecary skills you need to spot and deal with fakers early. Essentially, everyone comes with their own merits and little foibles, including ourselves. Transport and pro gear are a given. Pro playing ability, ability to keep a diary and reply to messages in a timely manner are also a must. Coming to rehearsals having already practiced the required tunes to gig standard is also a must. Musicians are by definition, arty and aren't good at the organisational sides of things. So you have to work round that. Getting 4 people who enjoy the same music, want to play the same number of gigs, and in the right locations is another. However, set a timescale, 3 months to learn 20/30 tunes, get photos, record a demo video and get gigs. Then a rehearsal once a month to add new tunes if necessary. Communicate this with potential band members before even auditioning them. Weed out people who just want 'to be in a band' because 'being in a band' isn't what being in a band is all about.

Considering that women are supposed to be empathic, they all seem to missing the main points. Why does he want to spend all his time in a different room to her? Maybe she should spend less time on Mumsnet/FaceBook/CandyCrush/CoronationStreet whatever...

Doesn't the UX1 have two inputs? Get a DI box for your bass. Maplin do a cheap one and plug your bass into the XLR. Will save you unplugging and plugging in all the time. You can then record while playing along to the drums and mix later. Or whatever...

Whatever normal bass player's fee is. There are a lot of players out there who have good ears and a massive repertoire of songs. If you are serious about being a bass player you should be learning all the songs cover bands are ever likely to do anyway. Open YouTube and spend an hour a night learning tunes you don't know. This will become amazingly simple and easy to do the more you do it. Then when an opportunity comes up you're more likely to be able to cover it. Having played in cover bands for nearly 20 years, a few things to note. 1. Most bands cover the same songs. 2. Most bands play in the original key and format. If they don't then it makes their life harder when it comes to finding deps. 3. Most pop songs follow a simple format with simple repeated chord progressions. 4. You're the bass player, solos and intros are unlikely.

I know. I feel the same whenever I've finished something. There's always the feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment but also an empty feeling that you can't put your finger on. Especially the day after an awesome gig. Maybe that's why I have so many unfinished jobs at home. It's the doing I like, not the end result.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1365691841' post='2043025'] Yamaha have made far worse and more amusing mistakes in their literature in the past. I'd suspect something as simple as a missing "0" in this case though. [/quote] They also tend to quote Max power for their outputs. Its a digital amp and split to two stages doing high and low frequencies. Digital amps have a habit of looking like they're creating energy, all that happens is they measure it differently at different frequencies. Use 100w.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1365790846' post='2044696'] No - post-everything. [/quote] So just turn the gain down then.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1365783071' post='2044543'] My amp doesn't have a mute, and the DI is post-everything. The silent jack works a treat fer me. [/quote] Pre-everything. That's a good point. If you're going straight into a DI box it might make sense.

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1365752027' post='2043780'] As creatures of habit ... [/quote] Quite. As a creature of habit I turn the gain to 0 or hit the mute button before plugging in or unplugging anything. Seems another over-engineered solution to a problem that didn't exist.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1365705281' post='2043326'] I don't understand the 'either or' argument in this thread at all, multiple bass players have been mentioned that strongly contend the idea that a player can only be this one-dimensional musician capable of singular genres and styles. It's not even close to true! I'll admit that you are somewhat a product of your environment, maybe if your background has been growing up listening to a lot of R&B, Soul etc. then your playing is likely to mirror this, but that's certainly not true of everyone, probably even becoming less and less true as time goes on if you consider how easy it is to access such a wide range of music as opposed to what you have to listen to because your parents do (for example). [/quote] Most of us are happy in all genres. Rock and Funk are not mainstream everyday radio play material. What you do hear is fairly watered down. Same for Reggae. There's even sub genres of Reggae that I've heard of but wouldn't know what they were if I heard them. How many of us would be able to carry off 'Lovers Rock'? I have no idea what it is, but there's a guy at work who listens to it at home. One of my bands plays 'Summer of '69' they think they're really rocking when they play it. To me it sounds weak. Just doesn't have that edge. It's the musician's curse.

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1365628276' post='2042170'] I'm unsure if you mean that this is a bad thing or not? [/quote] It depends on your target audience. If you're that band on BBC Strictly then you're getting paid, the dancers get live music to dance to, the people at home think it sounds good, everybody's happy. But there's bound to be a critical bass player sitting at home wincing at the awfulness of it all, of course even he's happy because he gets to grumble about how cover bands can't funk

[quote name='SlapbassSteve' timestamp='1365623558' post='2042077'] I think I might have missed something here! Definition of groove seems a big thing but overall the implication is that all players specialise in one style at the expense of others..? Playing in different styles is a part of being a well-rounded player, part of my grade 8 was doing a given chord sequence in plenty genres. I'd say I'm equally at home playing rock or something funky, and all stuff in between. ... [/quote] I've seen too many corporate and wedding bands to believe that playing any style of music is possible. You can fake it for your average listener but you'd be sussed instantly by anyone really in to that particular genre. I don't know why. It's the beauty of music. Imagine going into Newcastle and putting on a Geordie accent and learning a few phrases. How long could you carry it off? I saw a rock band at Butlins once. Very good, but something was missing. Everything they played was just too perfect, no rough edges. After a while I reconned they must have been session musicians put together by the events team especially for the season. Then I realised none of them had piercings or tattoos...

[quote name='mushers' timestamp='1365622136' post='2042047'] ive had a few beers so forgive me if im wrong to question this but transformers reduce the resistance ? [/quote] You are adding them in parallel. The resistance on the end of the extension lead reduces everytime you increase the number of amplifiers. In the same way as when you are adding speakers to an amp. BUT worse because the resistances aren't all the same. The total resistance will always be lower than the lowest resistance.

I think maybe the problem is that Rock tends to be 4 to the floor whereas funk is all about that 16th note at the end of the bar. So one song can't truly be both. So are we looking for an artist that has played in funk bands and rock bands in equal measures?

Ok. Most music grooves, some to more of an extent than others. U2s Vertigo is rock with groove, rockers might argue it's funky. I wouldn't. Rock can be funky in as much as someone who listens to a lot of rock might think of funk. Funk music can be rocky in as much as someone who listens to a lot of funk might think of rock. Are there any true examples where the genres have fully crossed? Living Colour were supposed to be funk-rock. Listening back now I would say they were rock trying to be funky. It's a good debate.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1365615071' post='2041887'] You are right, 1.5 twin and earth is actually higher at 18 amp rating, to be honest if you followed all the cable calcs to the law you house would be full of industrial size cables! I find its the full valve amps that struggle on anything over one decent ext reel, Its not my forte but I presume them valves like a good supply of juice? [/quote] Hmmm. You sidetracked me from the original problem. In a fixed installation you factor in diversity and usually have a fairly fixed load. The problem with the extension leads having thin cables isn't that they can't carry the current, it's that they have relatively high resistance. Fine for a single load like a light or lawnmower. Think about a band situation. Every time you add an amp you are adding a transformer in parallel. This reduces the resistance of the 'load' and makes the resistance of the cable more of a factor. Once the restance of the load drops to 10x the resistance of the cable 1/10th of your voltage will drop across the cable. This won't blow your fuse because you're not pulling enough current. Your amp will only be running at 90% voltage though.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1365613789' post='2041853'] Thats not right TimR you can put a 16A MCB to cover a 1.5mm cable, most commercial premises have that arrangement, so a 13A Fuse would be ok. If the reel is long then you might find a max 10A rating as described above because of the volts drop over that distance but most extension leads rated at 13A are only 1.5mm cable. [url="http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA1dot5F3.html"]http://www.tlc-direc.../CA1dot5F3.html[/url] Quite common for 16A applications like caravan leads etc [url="http://www.industrialextensionleads.co.uk/14m-110v-16a-extension-lead-15mm-arctic-cable-ip67-rated-9620-p.asp"]http://www.industria...ated-9620-p.asp[/url] It is truly amazing just how much you can get to hold even on a 10Amp fuse on a building site or a marquee gig! [/quote] I suspect you're right. I've had lots of trouble on marquee gigs where first half has been fine but as soon as the sun goes down and the marquee working lights come on. All the reverb units and digital FX go bonkers and the PA starts distorting. Flex will have a different rating to fixed installation ring run in singles and MCBs will have different trip curves to fuses. If odd things happen on certain gigs, only on those type of gigs or at certain venues then it's always going to be the supply.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1365605317' post='2041709'] But IMO everything about each note is important. Pitch, timing, volume, timbre, attack and sustain to name but a few. You can't dissect it down to individual parameters because they all add together to make a line work or not. However if we are just looking at micro-timing, it only works when the whole band has the same feel. You can play a line on your own and it can have fantastic feel, but if the rest of the band play it with even a slightly different feel, you'll be the one who sounds wrong. [/quote] Indeed. We all sound different. Swapping one member of a band can and does often completely change the feel of a band. IMO the drummer and the bass have the most input into whether the band grooves or not. That's why I believe that the note choices are secondary. Attack, volume, and sustain are more timing than pitch related. It is difficult to separate the two but I think for someone to believe they're not grooving because they're playing pentatonic blues scales and not minor 3rds and 7ths is going down the wrong route.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1365591237' post='2041398'] But the bass is also a melodic instrument. Sometimes root notes work, sometimes they can kill the song dead no matter how good your micro-timing is. [/quote] It can be melodic but not very often. Usually it's harmonic or just bass. Root notes are just my simple example. If you played just one single whole note in a bar, it's timing is absolutely critical in how the song feels, it's pitch just as critical but you generally would have only one choice of pitch and that wouldn't affect the groove in any way. Groove is where you put the notes not which notes you use.

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1365597722' post='2041560'] A thinner flex would be prone to overheat if you try to draw too much current through it - which is why there are different fuse ratings available to protect from risk of fire and/or electrocution. The current you draw depends on the power, but as BigRedX says the equipment power rating (i.e. my "2kW PA") will not be of any help as it also depends on the voltage. Power = Voltage x Current ...... P = V x I If you can remember your maths you can re-arrange this to show the current: I = P / V V = 240 volts in the UK, so divide the actual power rating (in Watts, as printed on the back of your equipment, probably next to the power cable/socket) by 240 to calculate the current draw (in Amps). Or to put it another way, you'll draw 1A for every 240W of mains power. e.g. a 1000W incandescent lamp would draw 1000/240 = approx 4 amps I doubt whether drawing too much power would cause issues with your guitarist's amp - the highest rating fuse that fits in a UK plug is 13A and if you draw too much current the fuse would just blow. In my pub covers band we run the PA, guitar amp, bass amp, monitors, (LED) lights and footpedals off a single socket with no problems. This makes it easy to ensure we are all through a circuit breaker and have no earth loops. I'd look more to overheating as the cause of the cutouts & maybe point a fan at the back of the amp on your next gig as an experiment. As the guitarist's two amps are identical, they probably both suffer the same design flaw [/quote] The thinner the wire, the more resistance it has. The more current you draw, the hotter the wire becomes and the higher it's resistance becomes. The more resistance the wire has, the more voltage drop you will get. This is dangerous because fuses can easily carry steady currents of 1.5-2 times their rating for a long time before blowing. 1.5mm2 is not rated at 15amps. The fuse should be 10amp max, possibly 5amps.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1365588991' post='2041362'] Have a drummer who is a rocker and he is really good at that.. as good as anyone around here, IMO. He can make a pass at the funkier stuff and sound pretty decent .. but you can tell he doesn't listen to it..and therefore he is short., IMO. If he put the time in..he could be so much better but he doesn't have the empathy or desire. Not a problem in reality as nobody but a really good funk drummer would notice... but... It is more than just having the notes/licks down.... in both genres. I think it is fair to say so and so is a rock player OR a funk player. The people that I know just don't cross-over or can't... ( I am talking about being at home in both a Maiden song or a Jamiroquai song... hmmmm..???) and why would they unless you are talking playing AT it, rather than playing IT. [/quote] Yes. The secret is to immerse yourself in the genre. As a teenager I used to only listen to metal. I was/am good at playing metal. As I've grown older my tastes have broadened and I listen to everything. Hopefully I can now play anything. I remember an interview with Roger Daltry who described their stand in drummer as a very good rock drummer, good basic 'four to the floor' but not what they were about.

Few other caveats. Always fully uncoil extension leads from reels. Use the shortest extension lead possible. The more current you draw from a long lead the greater the voltdrop you will get. So theoretically you can get 3kW from a socket but even a 50m extension lead will dramatically restrict this. As BigRed says Lights will always draw full current. Sound won't. However, if you have sound to light, more of your lights will come on with your loudest notes. This can play havoc with low voltage and digital effects processors. Edit: LEDs will be better than old incandescent bulbs.