TimR

Listen to the track. Moderately fast probably refers to the vocal and the 192 to the instrumental part. Unless moderately fast and 192 refer to the same passage, without seeing it it's difficult to understand.

I've only just got onto a PC to check out some of these 'heaviest riffs ever'. It seems to me that for bass players and musicians there seems to be a complete lack of understanding of the term riff. It's a basic musical term we should all be familiar with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostinato#Riff Typically they're 1-8 bar phrases that repeat within the melody. That's why Sabbath et al are referenced as riff based metal. I don't think a lot of these 'heavy' examples contain any riffs, or none that I can identify. For something to be heavy or contain weight it also has to contain a lot of light or space and some syncopation so that the notes punch in all the right places. The bass and rhythm has to double or support the lead fully. Iron Man is a great example, is it the heaviest? Probably not but it has all the elements of classic riff based metal. Some of the Budgie stuff meets the criteria but not that heavy. Maybe some early Anthrax might hit the mark, anything of the Among The Living album. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pTRXboRhyI

I'm finding the older I get and the more bands I play in, the more people I meet who have played with poor to average bass players and really appreciate a good bass player. These are musicians who will spend their time auditioning, give you the time and information you need and will know by the time you've reached the first chorus of the first song whether you're going to cut it. If the rest of the band aren't smiling by the end of the first song, you're either not the one, or they don't know what they're looking for...

[quote name='Donnyboy' timestamp='1362339255' post='1998656'] I was a waitrose virgin until today. Shocker. [/quote] Nothing worse than getting taken up the cold aisle.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1362328238' post='1998422'] That's Lidl behaviour , Dave . I got most of my male escort work from women who frequent Waitrose - I can't afford [i]not [/i]to shop there . [/quote] My wife shops at Waitrose. I thought she was getting through the housekeeping money quickly!

Sounds more like self-destruction mode. He needs to up his game then not resort to blackmail.

Indeed. I'm sure that what most audience members hear in their heads is not what we're playing. In fact I'm fairly confident that even what our guitarist hears in his head is not what he is playing.

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1362237955' post='1997400'] The pub pays us direct (cash) and we forward £30 of the £250 to the agent. It'd be guess work as to why the agent/venue have ceased to want to deal with each other but it could be that the venue have considered paying venues 10% less and thus they are making a direct saving. [/quote] Well £30 of £250 is 12% and £30 of £220 is 13.6%. At least you know exactly what the pub are prepared to pay and possibly the pub don't know how much of a cut he is getting and may assume he's taking more. If he's fallen out with one pub that's not your problem. I would approach the other pubs and see if they're willing to go without the middle man first then make your call. If they're happy to go with you direct as they've seen you play and know what pull you have then you don't have any decision to make. I think the two reasons for the pub to go with an agent are 1) The agent can vet the bands and try them out in smaller venues before gambling on the better pubs. 2) if a band pulls out he probably knows enough bands that he can find someone to cover at short notice while the publican gets on with pub business. You've done 1. you just have to convince them you can do 2.

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1362237099' post='1997384'] Ultimately he is a part-time agent (not paying taxes on this income etc.) ... [/quote] I'm wondering if this is the crux. Do the pubs pay you and then you pay the agent or do they pay the agent and he takes 10% and gives the rest to you? If it's the later he'll probably be (or not!) doing paperwork and the pub may be having problems with their books showing money going to one person who isn't their employee etc. Have the pubs maybe caught on to the fact that they're paying 11% over the top of what you're happy to play for and think they'll get away with paying less.

[quote name='GarethFlatlands' timestamp='1362234910' post='1997344'] There are about 8 clavinova tracks on 'Superstition' so you have to really. I've got a keyboard with a lot of different usable sounds on it so we usually fudged any sounds we couldn't make ourselves. [/quote] As long as the keyboard sounds are not 'cheesy'. In my last band they keyboard player had thousands of sounds. In the end for every song we played we stuck to padded strings, hammond organ, real piano or electric piano. Everything else is was just trying to sound like the original and not quite making it. Loads of songs sounded so much better for not trying to copy the keys sound or playing brass on keyboards. You can get away with keyboard brass on a record because your eyes can't see someone playing the keys. Live though, your ears can't lie to your brain because your eyes are giving it away even with hundreds of pounds worth of brass samples.

[quote name='musophilr' timestamp='1362234383' post='1997333'] Not quite the same here ... they pick a song and then say it sounds sh*t and not as good as the record, when the record had keys & a brass section and all we've got is 2 guitars one of whom occasionally doubles on keys to fill in some harmonies but is by no means a keys wizard. Or they pick a really cheesey song and then whinge 'cos it sounds ... cheesey. I get very pissed off when I'm asked to play a guitar part or riff that is clearly non-trivial but there's no dots, not even a chord chart, and the available recording is some crappy MP3 from which you can't tell whats going on in the music anyway. I'm getting to the point where I'll tell them that if they want me to play something they'll have to give me something I can read, otherwise I'm not playing it. [/quote] The best solution is to record the song and take it away to listen to and see why they sound different. What are people putting in that they don;t need to and what are people not playing that needs to be played. I find often someone is overplaying a simple part because they find it boring which leaves no space for an importart part to fit in.

My biggest frustration is when someone says we can't do a certain tune because we don't have a brass section, or a strings section, or a drum machine, and doesn't understand why when we pick a tune done by a band with the exact same lineup as us it sounds wrong.

[quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1362233118' post='1997305'] Yeah, thats what I meant, although I was thinking more of more radical changes. The difference between Sinatras, and Sid Vicious's versions of my Way for exmple. [/quote] That's a concious decision to change the genre and feel of the song in the same way as I've heard metal bands doing very good versions of Britan Spear's - Hit Me Baby One More Time. With no sense of comedy. The song will sound different just by virtue of other people playing it and different instrumentation. You don't need to change much

[quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1362232073' post='1997288'] I cant see any other valid reasons. Except maybe a song thats just too personal, or say, with the name of an ex in the title. Part of the trouble is, doing a song your/your bands way aint what most covers bands are about. Which is a shame in a way, even real pap can sometimes be turned into good numbers. [/quote] I think bands seem to spend too long getting the song 'exactly like the original', when really, no matter how hard you try it will never sound exactly like the original. Therefore without consciously trying to make it sound different it will sound different and until you try a song you don't know how different it will sound and whether even it will sound good or bad. Having a closed mind is not what being a musician is about. Well, at least it isn't for me. If it was, I would still be listening and playing along to Iron Maiden's Live After Death album...

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1362130082' post='1996067'] Did someone mention waistcoats? Look, it was a blues rock band OK?... [/quote] That guitarist should be a lesson to us all. When you leave the house for a gig and your wife says "You're not going dressed like that are you?" It's a statement not a question.

I find it quite dissapointing that people would refuse to play a song before they've even tried it to see what the band can come up with. To refuse to play an Oasis song just because it's an Oasis song doesn't make sense. I mean you don;t have to do all the fighting stuff and your singer doesn't have to have a whiney voice to pull it off. Just play the chords, bang the drums and sing the words. It's not hard. Our singer has said he doesn't really like ZZTop. We haven't got long beards or american accents and we don't sound anything like ZZTop when we play their songs

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1362098537' post='1995931'] IME, the trouble with giving band members the right to block songs has been that there's always one who'll block enormous amounts. Quarrels ensue, and people leave or are thrown out. I'd like to try to have a rule about blocking no more than a certain amount or percentage or something - not that I've thought through this idea. If it were up to me personally, any person who blocks or tries to block enormous amounts of songs just doesn't belong in that particular band, or is a jerk, and thus out. As mentioned previously, of course all of this has to play out before gigging. Member-walking-out-in-protest seems like a sure sign that something is very wrong with the band or that individual. best, bert [/quote] My vote is the latter. I think the hardest part of being in a band is recognising that as each member of the audience has different tastes, so does each member of the band. It's what makes every band different. Unless you're in one of those corporate faceless wedding bands, who sample the keys parts and use electronic drums to faithfully replicate the track, every band sounds different due to our individual listening habits. Playing tunes you hate is part of the territory. It's also quite important to regularly review the setlist and be ruthless and chuck out material either the majority of the audience or the majority of the band don't particularly enjoy. If you don't enjoy playing then that comes accross. Before I joined the latest band I went to see them play. I could tell the bass player wasn't interested and it influenced the whole dynamic of the band. When I auditioned it lifted the whole band - their words not mine

[quote name='mep' timestamp='1362082437' post='1995592'] I have found my waistcoat and duly started the photo tribute to 90's Bassist & Fran. ... Conservatory / Sun room location - Check Waistcoat - Check. Ok it's leather but I bought it in the 80's Flightcased Trace Elliot Head - Check Twin speaker stack - Check I'll award myself a bonus point for slipping in the original Bassist magazine Who's next? [/quote] I am disappointed that you haven't done your hair.

[quote name='Jacqueslemac' timestamp='1362040867' post='1994759'] Slightly off topic, ... [/quote] Not at all off topic. You'll only get better by playing with other musicians.

[quote name='obbm' timestamp='1362043634' post='1994784'] Interesting point. I joined a band last year on the basis of the their Set List. Since then we have added quite a few new songs, all of which are fine however I detect a move on the part of the singer and guitarist to move in a musical direction that does not appeal to me. I've already said no to a song which I detest so it'll be interesting to see how things develop. [/quote] I'm in a similar position. The band I joined just before Christmas have a strong setlist which is a mix of well known tunes and few fairly unknown but catchy ditties that sound good on first listen. I thought all was going well but... There seems to be a bit of argument surfacing about who likes what tunes and whether the audience will like it. I'll play anything as long as the audience like it. Even if I don't. I hate Summer of '69. Every band I've been in has played it. Badly. The audience don't care. They ARE Bryan Adams.

Look at the left hand. That's more telling. The original has the correct proffesional hand shape whereas the others are clearly amateurs.

If it was me I would just gently prod this thread for another day or so before revealing my identity. Got to be plenty of mileage in it yet.

This is why you should always interview someone face to face or over the phone than relying on text or emails. You can ask and answer questions and get a good feel of someone's actual experience, not what they've made up on paper. You should really treat it like any other technical job application. Application, general interview then technical interview. By the time it gets to the technical interview you're only really confirming that their style and approach to playing fits with yours. If you're auditioning to join a band then put in as much effort to learning the songs for the audition as you would for the set. If anyone asks you to learn more than 5 songs, ask them why.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1361885945' post='1992415'] Do these count? [/quote] Who would have thought you could get so many Keith Chegwins in one place at one time!

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1361482848' post='1986543'] Well the title of my reply to him was "Bass player here" and the opening phrase was "I play bass..." [/quote] Yes but what you write and what people 'see' is very different. I've had similar exeriences in bands where we've looked for a singer: Yes I sing, I've got a PA, I've got my own transport, I also play rhythm guitar. Translates to - I'll come along as a singer but once I've got my foot in the door I'll try to muscle my guitar onto stage with me, regardless of how many guitars the band already has, how the arrangements go, what's been practiced etc. We even had a singer turn up to a gig with all his gear, "Just in case." If they're after a bass player then don't muddy the waters - You're a bass player.