TimR

If it's a sub I doubt any size can will make it do higher frequencies. It's designed to do bottom and nothing else. Try to google the sub manufacturer and dig out a data sheet. Building a cab is not just a case of building a box, cutting a hole and putting a speaker in. Check out the DIY cab thread.

You'll have to cart your cab around the shops and do some testing. I suspect you'll be fine with anything up to 1000W but there are plenty of 350-500w amps that would be cheaper. But as Mr Foxen says, it depends...

Did you build the cab yourself? Do you have any info on what the driver is? If you can find the Xmax and Thiele-Small data, you can use them in software like WinISD to model different cab sizes and predict what might happen. Also is it a ported/vented cab? The above data might also help in deciding whether the speaker would suit a ported or sealed cab. Gererally (ouch!) you'll lose bass as the size of the cab reduces. Hours of fun ahead

Get an 8ohm cab. You can then add another 8ohm cab later if need be. If you buy a 4ohm and it's not loud enough, you'll have to sell it and buy two cabs or something else. You're not in a band yet so don't know how loud you'll need to be. The watts rated are electrical not volume related. All this 'full power from the amp' is a bit of a red herring. Look at the SPL values for the cabs and trust your ears. I own 2 400w Warwick pro 2x10s. 103dB. One for practices and small gigs, two for big gigs. Never had the volume past 1/3 with unmiked drummer.

Well, it's not exactly rocket science... ...more like particle physics.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1358009552' post='1931822'] A bit, but people have been studying this stuff since circa 1876, so at this point there isn't anything in the realm of audio that hasn't been scientifically explained. But it's not the sort of stuff they teach in secondary schools, nor even at the university undergraduate level at most institutions, not even those with EE programs. [/quote] Well, they do here in the UK. At secondary school we do the double slit experiment with light. Anyone who has seen that will instantly understand about 4x10s. I think the biggest thing to understand is beaming. The wider the source, the lower the frequency at which beaming becomes an issue. As you said above 4x12s are very directional for guitarists and 15" and 18" cause problems for bass players standing too close to their cabs. As for multiple size drivers in hi fi, you're using near field cabs as opposed to large far field cabs and speakers. Typically the largest speaker in a hifi will be 8". Plenty loud enough and practically omnidirectional at higher frequencies.

There are a couple of things to be aware of: 1) As you add more speakers your source becomes wider. As it approaches 1/4 of the wavelength the sound becomes directional. This directional 'beam' becomes narrower as the frequency rises. Think of it like the twist focus on a torch, raising the frequency is like twisting the focus. Normally this won't be a problem; the wavelength of sound at 40Hz is 8.5m, at 220hz it's 1.5m, at 340Hz it's 1m and at 1khz it's 0.34m. So your 15" (0.38m) speaker will be directional at anything over 220Hz and your 10" (0.25m) at anything over 340Hz. You can notice this as you walk across the room the sound is brighter in front of the speaker than it is to the side (this is known as off-axis response). If your cab was as wide as 2m the sound will become directional at 40Hz. Theoretically - I don't know about practical limitations. So I suspect having 2x4x10" next to each other would create problems. 2) Individual speakers next to each other create interference patterns. Those of you who paid attention in Physics lessons will remember the 2-slit light experiment where you shine a light through two slits and get patterns of dark and light on the wall. Again you can experience this as you walk across the room when a 4x10" is used and get different tones. You can get around this by vertically stacking two 2x10" to create a 1x4 configuration instead of the traditional 2x2 configuration of the 4x10" It's a lot more complicated than this when you start adding in room reflections, but in essence if you can't hear your bass it nay well be because you're not standing in the area where the frequency you want to hear, over the other instruments, is directional. Hope this is right and not too much of a lecture. I'm happy to be corrected.

I'm in 3 bands. 1. Has 1 gig lined up this year with no great ambition to get more. 2. Has 3 gigs lined up and lots of enthusiasm and is looking to get one a month. 3. Haven't seen any of the guys since September when we were looking for a singer, not really sure if this really counts as being in a band. I think band 3 sounds a bit like your current band. I don't see a problem with being available to play with as many musicians as possible. I don't see why any other musicians should have a monopoly on your/my bass playing.

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1357811753' post='1928639'] ... The place where that really falls down IMO though ius when the performance is hugely dependant on fx, like Shep's dubstep stuff, that is probably more down to the processing he applies than any amount of phrasing nuances (possible exception being how far envelope filters are opened, but even then sensitivity changes to the filter could make another player sound very similar). We arent talking a touch of octaver and a chorus here though, his fx setup is hugely complex and very carefully tailored to the material he is creating. Which makes it nigh on unique to him at any given time, and therefore you would probably find it easier to replicate his tone using synths. Of course the argument there is that he isnt really playing bass, merely using a bass as a signal generator for a hugely complex modular synth system, after all I can definitely make another fretless sound like his Roscoes do in a normal mix, just not in his particular choice of musical endeavour. [/quote] You could also argue that he (the player) set all this up carefully himself. He didn't just buy some new gear that magically changed his tone.

Think of it like a cake. Your bass is the base, plain sponge, chocolate, whatever, you can chose what you want. The player puts the icing and decorations on it. Thick, thin, hundreds and thousands, jelly tots. The cake is basically unchanged but looks and tastes quite different with different toppings. Then you take the beautifully baked and iced cake, drop it in a bowl, pour on some jelly and top it with custard. That's your band...

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357692377' post='1926991'] No?... [/quote] Yes.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1357720273' post='1927067'] Yes. Thanks for the lecture but I am well aware of this! It was me who made the comment about being buried in the mix. ... [/quote] Yes I didn't really want to highlight certain people because it was more of a general observation. If you're digging in everytime you play every note on every tune then you need to look at the gear. You're obviously not, some people may be.

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1357691498' post='1926984'] Would you say this is only true of good instruments or any instruments? I'd have thought it would be the same for any instrument. That is, you can control the tone in the same way with the same effect, even if the instruments natural tone is not as good as another's. [/quote] By good, I mean playable. Quality strings and transparent pickups. As opposed to bad, dead strings, warped necks, rattling machine heads and dead spots etc. Most instruments you buy nowadays are good. The better the instrument, the easier it is to play.

What concerns me here is everyone talking about 'my tone'. It's almost like you all play every note exactly the same way. I'm reading things like 'I dig in', 'I play with the tips', 'I play with the flat', and 'I tend to play harder when I'm buried in the mix.' Seems to me that there is a lot of learning to be done with respect to expression. Every note should be played differently. With a good instrument you should be able to control the subtleties of tone using your hands only. If you're buried in the mix then it's not your playing, it's your level and EQ that need sorting. It's these subtleties and your phrasing that make the music and they won't change from one instrument to another.

Quality of sound has never really been very important. I used to have an AM radio with tiny 5" speakers in my car, at one point I upgraded to an FM with cassette. It wasn't digital and would still go in and out of tune. But it did the job. Now the minimum is a PLL FM tuner with CD player and decent quality speakers. I'm sure music is made louder to sound better in the car or headphones on the tube. How many people who aren't audiophiles sit and listen to huge speaker systems in their home? Not many. As this thread shows the wives have control of what the sitting room looks like and big speakers don't look good.

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1357495083' post='1923524'] Well, I'd swap all of my instruments for one piece of crap bass if I could gain a load of skill in the swap. And I'd guarantee I'd sound much much better than I do now, or would sound if I played a £6,000 bass. I'll mention it again, a bit of tutoring on my fingering technique (stop sniggering!) improved my tone massively. It made my good Overwater sound amazing. Nothing to do with the bass, all to do with how I was playing it. [/quote] The Overwater has to be capable of conveying the tone. Re: Francis Dunnery. Are we talking about tone or technique here? The op suggested tone was mostly to do with the player. He didn't suggest ONLY to do with the instrument. So the question is really to what degree does the instrument and gear influence the tone? I would say they're 50/50. Massive amounts of EQ will change the tone radically. Lighter playing will not compensate for 12dB of bass boost.

I thought they just did covers of old MFI stuff.

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1357494290' post='1923508'] So our 12 year old Swedish friend finally nails his colours to the mast and proclaims The Mahavishnu Orchestra to be music whilst Jennifer Lopez isn't. Well, tell you what, I'm very happy over here in the clown camp 'cos I gave up on that masturbatory twaddle thirty odd years ago when someone opened my ears to the Count Basie Orchestra - never looked back! [/quote] The problem is his theory is majorly flawed in that when Bach etc wrote their tunes, they were popular and (shock, horror) people danced. Although the musicians of the time probably played with a bit more feeling than the orchestras do now.

[quote name='yepmop' timestamp='1357491674' post='1923435'] ... . If my memory serves me right did not Jaco learn musical theory later in his life? [/quote] No, he spent his whole life learning it. He only formalised it later.

A good musician will get the best available tone out of an instrument. The tone is a combination of the instrument's physics and the players ability to draw the sound out of it. At some point you reach a limit, either the player or the instrument.

Did we get to 5 pages then?

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1357490040' post='1923370'] So if you do grade 5 violin at school and never play again your a musician but if you play gigs most weekends to a high standard and get everyone on the dance floor week in week out your a hobbyist? [/quote] I think it's a title other people bestow on you. If you've taken an exam, then an examiner has given you the title. If someone has asked you to play with them and the audience have stayed to listen to your music then you're a musician. Just owning an instrument and making sounds with it, copied from sheet music or CDs probably doesn't make you a musician. You could well be a good player and a musician but whether you can decide yourself whether you are a musician or not is probably a matter for debate. Is everyone who auditions for x-factor a singer?

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1357487437' post='1923285'] So, if its all in the fingers and the player ability being more important than the gear why do we have 16,000 topics (with quarter of a million replies) in the Bass Guitar and Amps sections but 1600 topics in the Theory section? If you consider nearly 2,000 in the 'Gear Porn' but 129 in the Groove Library you'd be forgiven for thinking being a bass player was more about having than playing. [/quote] Because human beings like the quick fix. No one wants to spend years perfecting their playing when you can sound better overnight by changing your bass/leads/effects/amp/cab.

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1357417781' post='1922487'] Do you enjoy what you're doing? Do others enjoy it? If so, who cares what you call yourself? [/quote] I always enjoy what I'm doing, and usually everyone else enjoys it too. Although sometimes you would be hard pressed to describe the noise that our band makes as music...

[quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1357400194' post='1922108'] Abit late to this topic and only got so far through so apologies if this sounds like a rant. Jaco had a huge understanding of music theory. You do know that most of the Weather Report stuff was written right? As in it sounded so out there and boundary pushing because it had been composed and written that way. Also, People on this forum seem to think that by knowing theory restrains you from playing what you want because you're working within rules. All the theory does is explain the rules to you, give a name to what you're hearing. It allows you to speak and comunicate with one another. Yes music is a language, and you learn to speak before you read & write. But ate you guys telling me you wished you never did English at school and never wanted to read or write, as it will hold you back in your creativity in speaking?! That's what I thought. [/quote] I think the problem is that people keep thinking of theory in terms of rules. I keep going back to this point but there are no rules, or at least there is no enforcement of them if there are. They're more like a guide that you put in your back pocket and pull out when you get lost. It's like there are rules of spelling. i before e except after c. That doesn't work either does it, as there are more words that are the exception to that rule than actually follow it...