TimR

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1356017940' post='1905794'] WTBWITW I'm stuggling to see how this topic has got to 130 posts! [/quote] Anyone who starts a strong 10 paragraph post is gong to get plenty of replies. There's a section in off topic about Rants. If you go off on one there's bound to people who disagree. The more info you put in a post, the more you leave out. The best posts are ones that have been carefully considered before anyone starts typing. Otherwise, as been said, you write stuff, delete stuff, edit stuff, then give up and delete everything and bring nothing to the table. We could have all agreed 100% with the OP and given him and ourselves a nice warm fluffy Christmas feeling inside. But we didn't. I don't think anyone has been nasty about it though, have they?

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1356006233' post='1905537'] It works pretty well for Lynyrd Skynyrd... and my own band, Sea Bass Kid [/quote] Indeed. It's for the individual to decide what their band comprises of, who is 'good' enough to play in 'their' band, what their market is and what gigs they play. Was the pub the OP playing in a pub that the guitarist regularly played and had an appreciative audience? The type of audience who like 3 guitarist bands complete with playing behind their head tricks. There is no 'better', or 'best', there is only 'what the audience want'. Big corporate events organisers want safe bands, who play a certain setlist, to a certain standard, dress in a certain way, to a 'fairly' sober audience who've paid a lot of money for a meal and music to dance to. Pub bands don't.

Careful guys.

Yes I know him.

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1355881321' post='1904070'] ... It's probably worth remembering the old advanced driver adage: 'you're never as good as you think you are'. I'm sure there are plenty of professional musicians out there who have seen your band and think you're total hacks, that you were sh*t, that your sound sucks, that your two guitarists (who you spent so much time giving the metaphorical fellatio on page one) were dire and couldn't keep up in a Sex Pistols tribute band, that the singer was off key and the bassist was self indulgent, ugly, talentless and was repelling women away from the stage. But then I'm sure anyone who has spent some time at corporate functions has seen a wealth of useless 'corporate' bands who absolutely reek but think they are awesome. [/quote] This is pretty much what I was thinking when I first read the OP. I've since been corrected though as pertinent details were left out. The whole, we're too good for him to play with us, he'll ruin it, is something that a petulant child would say. Add in the reference to kickboxing - no idea what that has to do with anything. "We're really good", "the guitarist's are awesome", "the guitarists can play any tune", "we played an awesome gig", "He doesn't even know who (insert guitar hero name here) is." Some see it as scene setting? I don't. Learn some humility, it's unbecoming and embarrassing. I've seen pubs and clubs rammed with all sorts of bands. Entertainment is what is important, musicianship is secondary in most cases. Unfortunately.

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1355925105' post='1904544'] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][b]chaypup, on 18 December 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:[/b][/size][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]+1 I'm afraid. Also, [b]Quote[/b] "Jimmy Page was 21 when he wrote 'Stairway to Heaven', I could play it when I was 18 - I think that says a lot..."Is lifted from somewhere- possibly Spinal Tap [/size][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The Comic Strip's wonderful 'Bad News' actually.[/font][/color] You may well be right, but I first heard it from Neil in "The Young Ones", (around 1982/3) [/quote] Nigel Planer who played Neil in the Young Ones played Den Denis in Bad News. Adrian Edmonson played Vyvian in the Young Ones and Vim Fuego in Bad News. Vim Fuego: I could play "Stairway To Heaven" when I was 12. Jimmy Page didn't actually write it until he was 22. I think that says quite a lot.

[quote name='DaveFry' timestamp='1355917537' post='1904358'] ... - Sorry for the OT . Back to Arseholes in pubs ........ [/quote] Indeed. Do I need to be worried as I play at least 4 Free songs and don't know who played bass on any of them. In fact I've played thousands of tunes by almost as many artists and would struggle to name 10% of the bass players.

It's a mechanical device. Moving parts wear. In the same way that strings loose elasticity over time so do speakers. Even if it is the high frequencies that are affected, we all know that it's the highs that define the lows. Bass is bass, what makes bass 'rumbly', 'tight' or a whole host of other fluffy descriptions is the presence and amount of high frequency. My dad had a pair of celestion PA speakers that must have been 30years old. They sounded very wooly, no topend definition at all. We swapped them with new drivers and they sounded different. The sound is going to change over time. We all accept that. The question is whether 10hours is noticable. 30mins is noticeable with my strings but after a year they're as dead as they're going to get. I guess the real question is how long do speakers take to stabilise into that flat part of the slope.

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1355837022' post='1903344'] Was it his regular band though? Was it a very short notice depping gig that didn't give him time to properly prepare? I'm not saying you are wrong in your assessment but I think we all have to think before we start throwing stones. Personally I wouldn't have a go at someone about their playing after a gig like this guy did with you though so I can understand your grievance. ... [/quote] I don't have grievances. He didn't exactly have a go, just pointed out that some lines were wrong/not as per the original. Even at one point telling me I should use a pick and select the P pickup for one song. That's just beyond belief for a bank holiday pub gig. I could have pointed out that because the drummer was dire, the original line wouldn't have fitted, but opted instead to just smile politely and do his 'interview'. He's well into his 60s and playing standards that even I in my early 40s would have trouble playing badly. It wasn't wrong notes, we all do that, it was just bad, sloppy playing. Anyway my point is, you meet all sorts of characters, letting them wind you up or believing other musicians are inferior for whatever reason isn't good for anyone. The guy had apparently recorded with Tim Rice so something somewhere was wrong.

I think the point is you get people like this all the time at gigs. They big themselves up and usually actually believe they are far better than they are. Which is why my original post was so strong. A few years ago we were playing a gig. There was a guy taking photos and talking to lots of other people in the pub, seemed to be very well known locally. At the end of the gig he comes over and introduces himself. He's a journalist and bass player and asks if it's OK if he can do a review of the band. Sure, no problem, we get chatting. He's played on recordings for Tim Rice and Andrew Lloyd webber, depped for lots of different bands and played in West End theatres. Then he starts telling me how I had been playing certain lines in some songs wrongly that night. Fair enough, strange thing for him to point out, music is music, but listen politely anyway. A few months later I saw him playing in a band locally. I wondered if he was actually the same guy. His skills that night certainly didn't match his CV.

[quote name='bassintheface' timestamp='1355760640' post='1902314'] Tim - you're not correct ... Regarding how or what I spend my time doing and how I manage to fit in bass, wife, child, kickboxing, stamp collecting or even knitting is no concern of yours. [/quote] Fair enough. But you did leave out some pretty big details while bigging yourself up by name dropping huge venues. The only info I have to go on is you were apparently in the same band of musicians for 12 years. I'm sure you can see how that looked to me. You bought the kick boxing up. I thought telling you to chil out considering you were having a rant might have been quite good advice. It's music, we're all here to enjoy it, he's having a good time, just humour him and keep your distance. I've played with all sorts of deluded characters, typically the bigger the band and more money they make, the more deluded they get. Sorry if I mis interpreted your posts.

[quote name='bassintheface' timestamp='1355743447' post='1901977'] Ok, so this might turn into a bit of a long one but...... [/quote] To be honest you come across in your post as just as deluded and arrogant as this other guy. You've played in the same one band for 12 years, with the same guys from school. You're playing big gigs for big money and that makes you bigger and better than him? Good luck, but there's more to music. TBH, with those big gigs on I'm surprised you have time for your kickboxing. I think you should probably chill out and have a good look at what's going on around you.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1355690569' post='1901460'] ... True, I'm afraid. As suggested, you should follow him out of the window and see what everyone says then. A good bass player and drummer will make each other look great and are the bedrock of any half decent band - but you are carrying him, and therefore the rest of the band, too. This is an unbalanced and unsustainable situation - IMHO! [/quote] Contrary to popular belief, it is not the drummers job to keep time. It is everyone's. If one member of the band can't keep time you're all shot. It's worrying that your guitarist hasn't noticed although not unusual. In one of the bands I play with now the guitarist's timing is terrible which impacts all of us, if the soloist drifts you really have to support them and if people are dancing then you're shot as well.

Do you mean your keyboard player hears the same thing happening to your bass, or his amp? If you're both hearing the bass sound change it will be your amp. I had a Trace Elliot amp that seemed to lose power. Traced it to a dry joint. When the amp got hot the resistance changed. A quick dab with the soldering iron fixed it

Well you have the option of going with the flow. One gig I lost my temper (unprofessional and I really shouldn't have done it). Rather than holding the tempo back, I just went with him. The song got faster and faster and by the last chorus the singer couldn't even breathe, let alone sing. She ripped into the drummer after the gig. Far be it for me to suggest such underhand tactics, a few songs played that will expose him pretty quickly to the rest of the band. You're currently covering up his shortcomings.

I played with a drummer for 10years and struggled to get gigs. Mates would book us because we were cheap. We did about a gig a month and rarely got call backs. I really struggled to play in time, missed chord changes, played wrong notes. Tunes that I could play in my sleep at home but at practices and gigs just couldn't get it together. Was beginning to think it was me, apart from the odd complaint about 5 beat bars and speeding up through songs, the rest of the band were oblivious to his overplaying and double bass drum pedal stamping over all the bass lines. About 4 years ago I did a bunch of dep gigs for various different bands which reminded me that it wasn't me. I left the band shortly after and am now free to play something other than root notes to hold the tempo straight and fit with his clumsy bass drum and fills. I heard a recording recently - no change and still struggling for repeat gigs. It's worth looking around for bands to jam with or dep for. It's enlightening, even an average drummer will lift your game. It's like chess or squash, you only get better by playing a better opponent.

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1355609884' post='1900653'] with so many of these posts appearing, it seems to me that us bassists are a sensible lot who put up with loads of sh*t from others [/quote] Or they're precious control freaks who want everything done their way.

I agee to a certain extent. CDs don't cost a lot. The OP was describing the situation where the audience dissapears before you've even played a note. If you want an audience you need to create a buzz. It's not simple but there are ways. What about pretty girls giving out or selling CDs and talking up the band. I mean if you've got pretty girls giving out CDs then you must be doing something right? I just think it's no good moaning that your potential audience is dissapearing before you've even played a note if you're not interacting with them from the moment they walk in the door. TBH I've seen bands who turn up, soundcheck and then hide in the back room and disappear as soon as they've finished, and I've seen bands who are at the door talking to potential fans as they come in and hanging around afterwards. Which bands get the most fans? If you're the type of band who don't want and don't care about having an audience then the first route is the way to go. BUT I'm yet to meet anyone who purposely goes out to play to an empty room. Just to be clear we are talking about a special situation "multi-band events" and you need to employ special tactics.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1355366526' post='1897519'] but your audience needs to be larger than that other band or bands who may play on the same bill... substantially larger... so what does it matter whther they stay or not? [/quote] If people leave before you play they don't get exposed to your music and you lose potential new fans. My take on this would be to give out flyers before you play that can be exchanged for goodies (CDs, etc) after you have played. If they leave after your first song, then they don't like you and wouldn't want a CD and you've not lost anything. You then get a strong message if people start leaving during your set or don't pick up a CD after you play.

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1355358973' post='1897489'] all very true, but as i said it depends on what you want out of it. not everyone approaches bands in the same way. [/quote] I don't understand why anyone would be in a band, go to the effort of finding a venue or promoter to put on a gig, cart loads of stuff to a gig, do loads of practicing and get music honed with the aim of playing to an empty room. They may as well just get a rehearsal space. There are only three reasons I can see for playing in a band. 1. Entertain an audience. 2. Entertain yourself. 3. Further yourself as a musicain by playing with others. If you're not interested in no. 1, then what's the point in stepping outside the rehearsal room?

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1355356142' post='1897465'] i'd day primarily it's to entertain the audience ! i was going to type a big reply here but when it comes down to it there are as many reasons why people are in bands as there are people. the most i made from any gig in the 25 years i've played in originals bands would struggle to tickle £50, and the most i've played to (captive audiences aside) is ~150. i'm happy with that. i've made some people very happy with my music. rock on ! [/quote] Well yes, if you don't entain the audience they won't stay and won't bring their friends next time. But without the audience there is no one to entertain. So primarily you need an audience and you need to grow and widen that audience because tastes change and your music changes. Fans drift away and new fans come.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1355354849' post='1897443'] That's not really my point at all but hey what the heck who cares [/quote] The OP was, or seemed to be, saying that bands and other band's fans weren't staying to listen to other bands play. The point I'm making is what is the point in travelling to a far off location, hoping there will be a few people come to see your band, if it's not to expose new people to your music, and get them to bring their friends? If you're just going to play to the same people who follow you round each time what is the point of playing non local gigs? What am I missing?

Just down a bit. Near Colchester.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1355328932' post='1897023'] Some people would rather play their own music for free to a handful of people than a packed out venue bashing out mustang sally, if they did not we would have no new bands to do covers of at functions, not even sex on fire! [/quote] The object of playing gigs is to get exposure for your music to a new audience and grow your fan base. If you just want to play to your mates then stay local and do 3 or 4 gigs a year. It's a lot easier to retain that kind of audience as they don't have to travel and you're not overplaying your set. Learning your trade doing functions or playing covers in a pub band is a good foundation for any musician. It would be better if there was an MC who decided how much longer you play. Start at 20mins and if the audience like it add 10mins at a time. If the audience start to drift then it's everyone off the stage and next band on. I've been played at too many times. If the audience don't like your music, you won't win them over by blasting your music at them and shouting at them. If people don't like your music you need to ask them why and change, there's far too much self indulgent wailing out there. A lot of it on x-factor...

Unless it's a covers band playing well known good music, 2 hours of live music is about all most people can take. Even at festivals there is something else to do or see. If you're doing an outdoor gig and the weather is nice people will sit on the outskirts and talk etc. I think 3 bands each playing 30mins is enough. I've been to gigs to see a friend's band and stayed to watch the next band (who were dire). I would have left and not waited for the last band if I hadn't known the second band were only on for 30mins. However they overstayed their welcome and at 45mins I was ready to leave.