TimR

Wrong notes happen all the time. Don't worry about them. Coming in with the wrong intro is what I call a mistake. I did that last gig. Whoops. Oh Well.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1353836610' post='1878782'] ... Now these guys are all about entertaining themselves ... [/quote] There are lot like that here too. You may be opening a can of worms.

Keep looking, there are bands out there who understand how it works. Unfortunately I can't see those guys ever seeing sense. They don't understand why the soundman wants them to turn down and your just a bass player. Some people learn by reading and listening, some people learn by experience and some people never learn. The hard bit is recognising when you are an a loser trying to educate that last set of people.

[quote name='simes' timestamp='1353614613' post='1876675'] Easy - Commodores Teen Town - Jaco.....well the first 4 bars and only at half the speed it's supposed to be but it's my long term practice piece to work on at lessons. Not my usual musical fare but good for improving and learning. How the hell do you play that fast and maintain accuracy . [/quote] I think I have sections if not all of Teen Town transcribed in a Jaco book. One for the list of should learn for me.

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1353587476' post='1876289'] Yes this is all true. But I'd better clarify it [b]isn't [/b]drummer who's the problem here! I was just trying to be a bit amusing in my earlier post and not identify anyone as such, . But it's the singer who's got the problem with this. And what worries me in particular is that he seems to get [b]so [/b]burned up about it that I wonder if he has anger management issues in general. So I tend to treat him with a bit of caution now. [/quote] All communication. You can see his behaviour is odd, but he hasn't told you what his problems are so have to tip toe round him to avoid problems. It makes more sense to be the singer as all he has to do, generally, is turn up and plug in. However, singers have to learn different verses to each song and entertain the crowd, so the pressure is generally on them as the front person.

Audition tonight. I've learned Crossroads, Purple Haze, Green Light Girl, and Umbrella Man. Hopefully well enough.....

Generally it's lack of proper communication. So the drummer obviously doesn't understand why the guy is telling you to stop playing, and the guy doesn't understand that you don't need 5 minutes to clear the room. So the solution is to explain to your drummer why the guy knocks on the door and to tell the guy that you only need to be reminded if you are still playing 5mins before the end of time. With all these flakey problems it boils down to communication, assumptions and people not being aware of how their actions and lack of communication is affecting others. A lot of people in today's world have no idea of what is going on around them.

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1353580838' post='1876218'] ... But he does have the temerity to stick his head round the studio door and let us know if there is another band waiting when we are coming to the end of our time. ... [/quote] Yes some bands don't understand that if they book the studio for 4 hours, that includes set up and pack down time. You need to clarify this with the studio. It's no good playing right up to the end of your time if it then takes you 30mins to clear the room I play squash with a guy who knocks 5 mins before our slot starts to let them know we're waiting, then barges in bang on our start time. I find this a bit rude and would usually wait until they've finished their point. However, people will take advantage and should book enough time to play the game, or practice the set whatever.

I think the problem tends to be people not being honest with themselves, let alone the rest of the band, about what their motives are for being in a band and whether they can commit the time required to do it to the standard that the other band members are expecting. If everyone just wants to turn up and jam each week, and play the odd gig, then they should be up front from the start. Then the one or two who want to get better and gig regularly can treat it as such and get another band together.

[quote name='Rothers' timestamp='1353408404' post='1874613'] Our lead singer owns the PA as we only use it for vocal and to link in the monitors. The drummer owns a powered monitor and I have recently bought a slave to work directly from that. [/quote] That's a perfect example of why it's not just the singers responsibility. Monitoring. It can be a complete nightmare if you can't hear the vocals.

This question comes up often. It can cause quite a bit of argument if not handled correctly. Irrespective if it's 'just for vocals' it will end up being used for background music, announcements, backing vocals etc. The best solution is to buy the PA out of band funds and it's owned by the band as a consumable. Every gig the band puts £50 or whatever into funds. That money never belonged to anyone so is never owed to anyone. If you leave then you get nothing, if the band splits then the PA is sold and money split. The individual bits of a PA aren't worth much on their own. The problem with this approach is storage. Who loads the PA and brings it to gigs? Do they get paid? Then people who don't understand how quickly it all depreciates get frustrated when the band splits and want their £750 share from the £3k PA that's now only worth £750 in total. Owning bits of the PA doesn't work, if one person leaves with the speakers the band is stuffed. Hiring is a good solution, but gets old real quick when someone has to book and collect gear each gig. You end up getting different rig each gig. What I ended up doing was buying a PA and hiring it to the band. This also has problems as after so many gigs the band feel they have somehow paid for the PA and don't think thay should still be paying for it. What they don't see is you storing it, bringing it to gigs, fixing leads etc. The band were getting £3k worth of gear for £50 a time. I told them try to hire it somewhere and I would pay them £12 a gig and just turn up with my bass gear. They grumbled a bit, thought about it, then would bring up the question again every few gigs. You're dealing with people who don't generally understand what's happening in the world around them and just see £50 going into someone else's pocket and not theirs. I play in a different band now who do understand.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1353355981' post='1874214'] Hoist by my own petard! [/quote] Aye. I should have changed Mozart to Mustang Sally but thought it was pertinent to the subject matter. It is very true and explains why some non musical people like it so much and those of us who understand music should remember that just because we don't like it doesn't mean others shouldn't.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1353156754' post='1872178'] All music is made up of elements that create tension or release, harmonically. melodically, aurally, rhythmically etc. When we listen to a piece for the first ime, if it has too much tension, it confuses us. Too much release and it bores us. Whatever we dislike can usually be traced back to these concepts. Too complex a harmony will leave us finding something 'cerebral' and lacking in emotional content. Too complex a melody and it may sound 'self indulgent' or 'unmelodic'. Too complex rhythmically and it will sound 'busy' etc. But the tough bit of the formula is, our 'best fit' is changing all of the time and something that worked for us last year may not now (that's why we 'grow out of' bands we used to love). If you keep going back to something, eventually you may grow to like it or even favour it over stuff you used to love. If it is too simple for your tastes, however, you may never be able to learn to love it again e.g. Mozart. Don't forget that there are cultural factors in there also; nostalgia being one of them. [/quote]

I think it's an experience thing. If you are gigging regularly you soon start to rationalise the amount of effort you put into carting gear versus the amount of pleasure you're getting setting up and fiddling, and breaking down versus the amount of fun you get when playing. For me the multiple trips to and from cars in lifts and up stairs and ages fiddling setting up gear got boring real quick. Who wants to spend an hour setting up when you could be arriving later or chilling with the rest of the guys. At our last gig, I was set up in under 5 mins then helped with the PA and lights while the guitarist spent ages messing around with 4 guitars and countless pedals. We were all changed and having a beer while he was still tuning his last guitar. Then there is the cost versus leaving gear unattended issue. I was about to buy a £2k bass when I thought whether I was going to be comfortable gigging such an expensive bass. The answer was no and I could still get the sound and live with a sub £1k one.

It's very unwell that's for certain.....

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1353000656' post='1870386'] Wasn't this thread about mustang Sally. [/quote] No. Mustang Sally is the example, the undercurrent is that people who play it are lazy and lesser players and not worthy of being called musicians. Somehow playing it lessens you as a person or musician. Much the the same way as Moondance does for a Jazz bassist.

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1352996685' post='1870325'] Matey - snobbery doesn't occur when you're being different to somebody else - vive la difference , as they say in Switzerland - snobbery occurs when you think you're being better than somebody else. [/quote] That's not quite right as we're all better than each other at a lots of different things. It's when you don't give people respect because they are not as good as you. Strive to be the best and celebrate when you are the best but remember you weren't always, and won't always be, the best.

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1352991144' post='1870248'] ... My point is that there are people who think 'I'm a proper musician and it's beneath me to play it'. Well - that's bollocks , that is. [/quote] Exactly.

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1352985536' post='1870135'] ... My point was I have seen bands- and depped for them - that have a set list of hundreds of songs to choose from and I also have been in bands where the set list has been really thought out well, even thought there have only been 30 odd. ... Dismissing a song is not really down to musical snobbery at all- I just think that to be a successful cover band you have to be different and have your own niche- and that may not include easy songs that any band could do in their sleep ( however popular ) [/quote] This is kind of my point. If it suits your set then play it. If not, don't jam it in just because it's popular. But then again, if you're a soul band then it is a basic requirement, however cheesy... Having a well thought out set is key. Turning up with a folder of 200 songs and throwing the set together on the fly never really works. As for making tunes more interesting, that's a whole can of other worms. I've just been listening to a live recording of a band where the bass player has tried to make his part more interesting, so have the keyboards, the guitarist, the trumpet, trombone and drums. It's certainly more "interesting".... It's only notes, how hard can it be!

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1352983010' post='1870063'] I think he knows what he's talking about. In my experience it is better to have a terrific set of a maximum of 35 songs than hundreds. There is a difference between having a so so set of many than a brilliant set of a few. [/quote] So you have only ever played 35 songs in your life? How long are your gigs? That's only two hours of material at a push! The point is; the band has played hundreds of songs. We've still got charts for them all and if we needed to we could play any one of them. The reason that we have a set list of 50 terrific songs that we play on a regular basis is because they're terrific. You find that out only by trial and error. Songs one band can pull off others can't, turn up to a pub gig full of a certain age group and try to get them going with Lady Gaga and you'll get into problems. If you can afford to chose which gigs to do then it's different, but if you're in the market for functions you will struggle. Mustang sally has 3 chords and 5 noes of the pentatonic scale. It's hardly taking up valuable space in your brain or learning time. Dismissing a song that the audience request and like because of snobbery is up to the individual band but no one is getting bookings turned down because Mustang Sally is on their setlist and the audience don't like it. If they were no one would play it.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1352978666' post='1869992'] At first I thought your reply was a facetious response arguing that if you're not playing Mustang Sally you must be playing some indigestible self-indulgent nonsense, but then I realised it was a clever metaphor to demonstrate that the reason there are thousands of bands playing Mustang Sally is because none of them have the imagination to realise that there are acres of middle ground they could be occupying. [/quote] Quite frankly, you don't know what you are talking about. It's ONE song in hundreds of songs we play. If a band were to play a 10minute extended mix several times during their set you might have a case. Get a grip man!

It's one song in a 3 hour set. Hardly lazy! If there are other party songs we think that will go down well; we try them and if they don't go down well they get scrapped. After a few years all bands who have gone through this process end up with a back catalogue of a couple of hundred tracks, 50 of which we know will work. Why do all bands play similar sets? 1. They've been through the above process. 2. As people move from band to band they 'bring' songs with them. 3. We go to see a band and see what songs get a good reaction. 4.... We keep the rest of the set current by chucking out chart hits that have gone out of the charts and adding new ones. That can be a lot of hard work for sometimes little reward, especially if you're not gigging every week.

Difficult to dance to. Great to tap your foot, nod your head, air guitar, but the chicks can't dance to it.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1352903692' post='1869139'] Could well have been Lenny himself, he's known to play all the instruments on many of his tracks and he's a supremely talented bass player! [/quote] Definitely Tony Breit.

Tony Breit?