TimR

I think to blame musicians who undercut other musicians for the fall in pay is over-simplistic. It's a free market and if people are able to sell their services for less to one market by charging more in another market then that is the way of the world. Step into any supermarket. Fuel is being sold at less than market price and being subsidised by people buying overpriced milk. This is similar to proffesionals playing the pub for £250 on Friday then playing a wedding for £2k on the Saturday. If you take this to the nth degree you also have musicians who have to subsidise performing music by doing other jobs; teaching, recording or working in offices. So I think it's unfair to criticise one person who works in an office to subsidise playing in pubs when 'full time' musicians are doing exactly the same by teaching or recording. In all honesty there are some bands with standard setlists 2x45mins, the play same tunes with a few changes every few months, there are other bands with literally hundreds of tunes in their repertoire who can play requests. Should the first band really be charging the same as the second band? Is "Play Hey Jude", "Sorry, We don't know that, here's Get Back instead." really worth £250?

Keep your bass on a stand or hanger, not in a case.

[quote name='Steve G' timestamp='1349799541' post='1830709'] I'm gonna stick my oar in here. I'm newish to bass playing and would love to be at the point of being in a band and being able to play to an audience, the covers that many berate would be fab for starters. But how do you do that? How do you get a following if you can't play live? If you've not got a following how'd you get a gig, whether you are 'just another' covers band, probabbly harder as an originals band? All rhetorical questions really, I'm not asking for answers; but I can see why a new outfit would be willing to play for free or very little. Afterall you put the hours in to practice/rehearse but if you have no outlet for it what's the point. I see that as time progresses you would want and will be able to charge and this would increase with popularity. Maybe there are just too many bands at the start of this curve and the atrition rate is pretty bad so there is always a new band to fill the 'freeplay' spot? [/quote] Do what any other band does. If you think you're good enough, you put on a showcase. Nothing elaborate. You hire a room with a bar, get some lights and a PA. You invite all your mates to come and see you. You charge them - or you don't - to come in. You get action photos taken with the crowd enjoying themselves and you get video done. If people dance and stay and drink beer then you're probably good enough. If they make excuses and leave after the first set you did something wrong. You then listen to people's opinions and make the set even better. Then build a website with your photos and videos and print out cards and hassle pubs for paid gigs. Simple. If you are really good your mates will start asking you to do their birthday parties etc.

My brother's band loaded the van, drove 50 miles to do a free gig. Got to the pub to find another band set up. The landlord had booked another band and not bothered telling my brother. Luckily they're not in it for the money and enjoy loading all their gear into the van and just driving round for a bit on a Saturday night.

I learned something very early on in my gigging career. We had just started the band and were very keen to get gigs. Probably a bit too keen. We were asked to play a local gig for repairs and modernisation to the church. It's all for charity what's our best price for a dinner and dance. We dropped from £650 to £300. Our thoughts were, we're not pros, we enjoy what we do and it's for charity. What we didn't factor in: 1. Expensive hotel, no free drinks, the beer was over £4 a pint, soft drinks similar. 2. The tickets were £50 each! 3. The auction of promises done before we started playing made £10k. 4. We arrived at 5pm to set up and supposed to start playing at 10:00. Due to the auction we started at 11:30 and played till 1:00am So we sat round for five and a half hours drinking expensive drinks to get paid £40 each and play for 1:30. Never again. If you play for free, at some point something similar will happen to you and you'll wake up in the morning feeling a little bit annoyed.

A couple of those PAR cans on the floor aimed up at the drum kit make the hardware look amazing too.

I think the LEDs are pulsed which is why they are painful to look at.

Followed by lots of confusion at the next practice when they struggle again and someone says "Didn't we change the key?" And the process starts all over again....

All good. I've seen It Bites at Bush Hall twice in 2 years. The first time with Pomeroy on bass who hadn't played on that album. The second time with King on bass, however, Pomeroy had played on that album. I also saw Dunnery at Bush Hall (last year?) very impressed. Looking forward to the tribute album. Is Nigel is playing on it?

If you think being in a band with two guitarists is bad, try one with five 1st trumpeters. The second guitarist thing is all about arrangements, they just have to spend time together to workout who plays what. I was always sceptical but it's no different to stopping the keys from playing your bass line. I don't think I'd join a band who tried to put humour in their advert. It's bad enough trying to work out who's being serious on a forum.

[quote name='tonyclaret' timestamp='1349420293' post='1826005'] Mmm...bump for help! Not getting many direct views from google and the visits we do get aren't bring converted to solid bookings. Getting paranoid now about the structure if the website and the keywords. ? www.rubyandtherogues.co.uk [/quote] This is where your analytics come in. Look to see what pages people click on after the main page. If they look at the main page then run away then something is wrong with it. I don't like the time it takes to load and the fact that the background images change. People don't have a lot of imagination, action shot of band, description of how many members and what type of music you play. Less words draws people in and makes them click for more info, more words make if difficult to read and puts people off. Think of mobile users. Next- where do people go? Order your menu where YOU want them to go. If you have pages people don't look at either delete them or change the title, see how that goes for a month. Keep changing until you see patterns developing. Personally the things that would be important to me are: What do you look like playing?, What's your setlist? How much are you? How do I book you? The rest is window dressing to draw your audience into those points without them having to search for them. All this is courtesy of oldgit who helped me build a really good working site. Then the band pulled it apart when I left because they didn't understand how other people's minds worked.

Most of the time it depends on what the drummer plays. If he's a four to the floor merchant you're going to be severly limited.

I'm thinking someone who has a range of more than an octave and a half. I think most pop singers can manage 2 octaves considering they're mic'ed up. If someone claims they can sing and only has an octave range, you're in trouble.

[quote name='mart' timestamp='1345113424' post='1773620'] I agree that it's the [i]range[/i] that matters, not the key, but I suspect the point still stands: if all your songs are in the same range (especially if that range is narrow), then they may all sound a little samey. But I don't think that's a good enough reason to force the singer outside of their natural range. Samey songs surely sound better than screechy singing. And, fwiw, in all the bands I play we transpose all over the place according to what our singers prefer. [/quote] I imagine that the narrower the range the fewer keys are available to play in. In the rare (2 cases) that happened to me the singers were eventually asked to leave. Lesson learned - get a singer who can sing. It's a bit like having a bass player who only plays on the first octave. Most of us play 2 regularly and occasionally step up into the third.

They're just a bunch of notes. I learn them. Then I play them.

That is still a song I must learn. Project for tonight when the misses is out. Isn't there a Rhythm Stick thread somewhere?

They're is some weird stuff going on with autocorrect at the moment. Earlier on I wrote their instead of there in a thread and I'm one of those people who hates it when people don't know which one to use. Wayne that's a good one, I think you went in for the kill a bit early, could have been worth some mileage. Anyone else bored going to have a go?

Don't think many complex tunes. The other day the new band I'm in suggested we did an Iron Maiden tune. I said I'd played The Trooper in a band in 1987 and that was the last time I'd played it. We played it top to bottom having never played it together before. Weird.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1348562835' post='1815108'] Theory will tell you all the notes you could play. Only listening, experience and personal taste will tell you the notes you should play. [/quote] Yes. It's a two way street. Your ears should be able to tell you that a 3rd will sound good, but your theory will tell you whether it should have been a minor 3rd of major third you just played, and your ears will tell you whether you were right or not. If your theory and ears aren't up to scratch there's a 50/50 chance that you played the wrong one.

For speech? Senheizer.

It's basic teamwork. 90% of the bass players job is to lock in with the drummer. If you're playing basic pop it's very hard to go wrong. Learn the tunes and play them. People get into trouble when they try to reinvent the wheel. My brother had a lot of trouble with a bass player who kept adding frilly stuff and messed up the basics. Auditions like the OP just highlight that there are people who don't pick up their instruments between practices and who don't listen to the original and stick to the form. Most of the issues I've had in bands are when they've decided to make a song their own by adding verses and missing out tricky middle8s. The first question to ask is do they have charts? The second is do they play as per the original?

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1347470972' post='1801343'] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][i]Clue:[/i] The pub is in Hertfordshire next to a river.[/font][/color] [/quote] Is that the Inn Before the Lock?

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1347320612' post='1799421'] ... The guy told me that they were all very experienced musicians, played in bands for years, and aim to be gigging in a few weeks time. ... [/quote] The more bands you play in and the longer you have been playing, the more you will learn to smell a rat early on. This forum is good for advice from other players but somethings you just have to learn. You say 'He told', did you speak to him or was all correspondence through email. I find speaking to someone on the phone gives you a much better idea of whether you're all on the same page. The pauses between answers, the way they speak, questions you can ask as soon as they arise based on his previous answers. It's then very easy to say on the phone, "Sorry I don't think I'm what you're looking for."

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1347403611' post='1800499'] ... Since then I have only had a few approaches from people who'd heard I played and got the occasional "We should totally do something, dude!", but nothing's ever worked out. ... Jam nights are no good because what I'd really like to do is Blackened Death Metal... At my age! ... [/quote] Few good points there. The first is flaky people who don't have a great deal of drive or are busy doing life stuff. I know plenty of musicians, but tying them down to play is hard. I think if the gigs are there and you know what market to aim at you're sorted. If there is no market for the music you are into then you either have to broaden your musical aspirations or never play. I'm not sure which direction the latest project I'm in will go. It's not lacking in drive, not sure if the genre is right, not sure if all the musicians can commit to regular gigs (or even want to). Meanwhile I'm thinking time for a jam night. Although last nights rehearsal with my other band was smoking. Go figure!

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1347403471' post='1800495'] If you word it like that you'll probably be inundated with singers who think "that sounds like my type of band". What you won't get is the X-factor wannabees with no clue. Try it, you have nothing to lose. Steve [/quote] Reading it this morning it doesn't look too bad. Lol.