TimR

Discussions where people have polar opposite views always go on for pages. Especially when people have strong views of the way things are supposed to be done based on their experiences. If you're getting paid it's not a hobby and if you expect to get paid you will never get much if you treat it like a hobby. At some point the band becomes a business. Yes there are many reasons why people play in bands. BUT I played in a band for 12 years that gradually evolved into something I didn't sign up to in the beginning. We had regular meetings to discuss "the direction of the band" and "the way forward" but people would nod and agree to things that they didn't actually agree to and then do nothing. Essentially you need to speak up and if they don't listen, or if you don't agree with the drinking then you end up leaving which is a shame becuase I think a lot of bands fold due to "changing attitudes". But again that's life. The older you get and the more you experience it, the more you come to recognise it before it becomes a problem and do something about it.

Mainly anecdotal but I was in a large band of 70+ musicians. It was hard to get them to commit to one concert a year. I've played in at least 3 bands that never got to gigging 'standard' according to the band leader. Another band the guys only wanted to play gigs less than 30mins from home and one band where they only wanted to play once every couple of months. My brother has had similar experiences including a songwriter who had written songs, got a band together to play them, then spent 3 months worth of weekly practices changing each song.

There are far more people in bands because they like to be able to tell people they're in a band than are in bands because they like to perform.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1333977351' post='1609011'] I live in SE London and it's a two-and-a-half hour round trip for me to rehearse. I have a couple of beers during rehearsal - as does most of the band. This was the way of things before I joined them, so who am I to rock the boat? Had they been totally down on booze I would have respected that too - I can take it or leave it. It's just not that big a deal. [/quote] And to be fair to the OP he joined a band who rehearsed then went down the pub. They now want to change that and he's not happy with the situation. In his (and my) experience things rapidly go down hill after that. Personally if the band's not gigging I would have left well before then anyway.

It's not a case of telling people how to behave. It's a case of having respect for your fellow musicians. People just seem to think they can behave as they want and ignore the effects it has on other people. Sacking someone from a band is something no one really wants to do and this sort of thing can fester for a while before either someone gets sacked or gives up and leaves. Which is essentially where the OP is coming from. If the band regularly drink at rehearsals then obviously it's not the band for me or the OP. The problem happens when either no one speaks up or they're ignored. And what does regularly mean? And NO we don't all live in huge cities with bands around every corner. I drive 20mins to my rehearsal to play music, if I wanted to hang out with my mates drinking then I would walk 5mins to the pub.

You can either take it straight off the multicore or out from the insert. Probably the same thing. Why aren't you just taking the guitar lead straight to the amp off stage? Wherevwill the amp be located in relation to the guitar and mixer. Long guitar leads should be ok driven from the pedal outs. Back to the desk is straightforward.

Lol. One drummer I played with must have got a lift to the station and is still waiting for the train.

Alcohol is a depressant not a stimulant. It depresses your reactions and impairs your judgement. You're more likely to scrape your car on the garage wall than kill someone after a pint. More likely to miss the subtle ques from your fellow musicians like changes of tempo from your drummer. But if you're playing in a band where you all have a few beers, the drummer counts 4 and it's see you all at the end of the song, it probably doesn't matter. Depends on how seriously you take your musicianship. The first sense to get dulled from alcohol is your hearing which is a good enough reason not to drink for me.

You'll probably find that he's starting too quickly and trying to play too many notes. I've no idea how many notes our guitarist is trying to squeeze into the intro of suspicious minds but it's certainly not what was written. I've never heard a band play the intro to sex on fire properly yet. Isn't the accent on the second half beat of the bar or something awkward?

Anyone who thinks drinking makes them a better player should remember that people used to say that about their driving

A practice is not a writing session and a rehearsal is not a practice. If someone opened a beer at a practice, I would have to ask why? If they opened one at rehearsal and they will have a beer on the gig, its probably the best time to find out if it makes them better or worse. Probably the last person to ask if drinking makes a player better is that player. Drinking slows your reactions it's hardly likely to sharpen you up is it? If you're drinking to relieve stress it'll only make the stress worse. Someone 'needing' a beer is completely different to someone 'fancying' one.

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1333702784' post='1605379'] ....sometimes it is hard to convince them to spend 20 mins each day grooving to a click. .. I have to supply a hats chick or something when the drums are not playing, just to keep it together. ...usually subtle tempo shifts help a song to breathe. So the answer is, in most of my bands, yes. [/quote] I wonder how many bass players and other musicians practice to a click. I've not for a while. In fact I've probably not picked up my bass outside of rehearsals for a while now You HAVE to provide a hihat? Is this because you are asked or because the musician goes wildly out or just because you feel you need to. There's a cover of a well known LedZep tune that features hats over the intro which completely destroys the feel that the original LedZep tune had. I'll try to dig them up. I've asked my drummer not to do this over my bass intros, or count me in as it feels like I'm at school. He agreed with no discussion saying hd didn't know why he did it as I didn't need it. (which made me feel all warm and cuddly ) Letting the song breathe is an altogether different discussion and it's different to getting faster and faster until the singer suffocates and falls off the front of the stage.

[quote name='Davo-London' timestamp='1333662964' post='1605168'] I'm a drummer-bassist. Trust me there's lots of "musicians" that should never play with a drummer. They have absolutely no concept of maintaining a tempo. So as a drummer I have a dilemma, should I stick with the tempo and clash with the lead or go with the flow? I nearly always "go with the flow" because the alternative is too depressing. If you think this is an unbelievable (spelling) question then I suggest you have a look at your own timing. Most bassist are surprising poor at keeping tempo in my experience. Davo [/quote] That's an interesting comment regards going with the flow. Maybe that's the real issue some of us are seeing regards speeding up. On a number of occasions during rehearsals our lead guitarist will come in a beat early/late on a solo. I'll always try to stop the song and rehearse the section but the drummer will often just skip/add the beat so he is back in time with the guitarist which causes the rest of us to do the same. Usually The drummer and I change at the same time, I think we work well together, but the rhythm guitarist is another matter. Depressing? If it's a regular issue, and you're planning on playing music for people to dance to, it needs to be addressed.

[quote name='KK Jale' timestamp='1333543715' post='1603235'] ... Me. Oh, okay. Weak, I am. Weak. [/quote] You should be careful here. I used to play Gold by Spandau Ballet. There was a section that I could never get right when I played with the band but was fine when I played with the original. I recorded our band playing it and found that in the original the whole band held a note while the singer sings triplets. In our band EVERYONE was trying to fill in the space with some random fill. The singer was struggling to garble the words. At the next practice I told everyone what I had found. Me: no one should play anything, everyone just hold the note then the singer can fit the words in. Singer: I've never had a problem there! Drummer: I'm going to still play a fill or it will feel empty. Me: let's just try it first. We play it. It sounds great. Band agree it sounds great. Singer: I wondered why I always struggle in that part. Doh! Moral: always record yourselves and compare to the original before laying blame.

I try to make at least one schoolboy error every gig. It's what makes playing covers interesting. At the last gig the drummer announces that we have to lengthen one of the sets from 45mins to an hour and that we would be playing three extra tunes at the start of the set. So I amend the set. We come on and hit the first note. Hmm that doesn't sound right. I'm so thrown that w're past the intro and two lines into the verse before I realise that the tune I'm trying to play isn't what the rest of the band are playing. At the break I ask the drummer why we didn't play the extra 3 tunes like we planned. His reply - "We are. It's the second set that was too short" For the first time ever we had planned an hour first set and a 45min second set. Has anyone else ever planned a shorter second set?

What make, model and impedance is your cab? What amp are you driving it with? I would go with another 15 same make and model assuming your current amp can drive the pair.

It's not cut and dried. Every situation is different. I played with a drummer for too long who wanted to play everything too fast. As a bass player it is very easy to hold the tempo back or push it forward but it gets very tiring doing it song after song, gig after gig. We used to have a nightmare getting the feel of Crazy Little Thing Called Love. There are things going on in that tune that are not immediately obvious. Mainly the drums really push and drive but the vocals are really laid back. If the drummer plays with a laid back swing feel you can't do anthing about it. Essentially in tunes where the bass and drums are on the beat together it's a partnership and bass can control the time effectively. In tunes where the bass is laid back, the drums have to keep time and push ahead. In tunes where the bass is pushing it is the bass keeping time and the drums sit back on the bass. Most drummers only understand playing on the beat like a metronome. If you find one who can play with feel and can push without speeding up then keep hold of them.

Me: Dave, you sure you want to set up there? I have to put the lights there later and you're going to get hot, blinded and they'll be in your way. Dave: no I'll be fine here mate. After souncheck... Dave: can we move the lights, they're right in my way, I can't see anything and they're bl**dy hot.

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1332949731' post='1595388'] Yes, I mean, the band has only been gigging for 18 years after all, so I guess they need time to get the hang of it [/quote] Indeed. I learned a lot in my first band. The main thing was not to let things fester and to be up front and honest without being overbearing. Me: I think we need to ensure that nothing goes onto the stage during load in. Until drums and PA and backline are in place. No cases, bags, cloths, instruments, music etc. Drummer: definitely, I've been meaning to say something for ages. It's a nightmare setting up the drums with everyones gear everywhere. Next gig; Me: I thought we agreed no cases etc on the stage! Drummer: oh that was for everyone else. I need to unpack my drums on the stage.

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1332942024' post='1595205'] It's not something people actually say, but I hate it when we are carrying all the gear in from the van and people put it all ON the stage. I mean, don't you realise we then have to move it all again to prior to setting up. No brains. [/quote] That is the most frustrating thing EVER. I played with a sax player like that. All her stage clothes, handbag, instrument always right where I was about to drop my bass cab. One day I swear I was just going to put my cab down on all her stuff. Eventually I got the whole band together and said nothing goes onto the stage except backline amps, drums and PA cabs until the PA is set up. Trying to run mains cables across the stage without knocking over drinks, music and instruments on stands. I just thought it should be obvious but a lot of people seem to need it explaining to them.

I arrived at my first gig with the band to find they had set up everything on the stage. PA mixer, PA amp, monitor amp, PA speakers, guitar rack for 7 guitars with 4 guitars in it. Leaving no room for us to move. Me: we need to move all this stuff off the stage into the wings, people have come to see us play and we've got no room to move about. Guitarist1: But then no one will be able to see how much gear we have.

I wouldn't limit yourself to one. There are several very simple standards everyone does. Floor filling ones include I Saw Her Standing There, Get Back and Twist and Shout.

Smooth Operator. Fairly simple up to the bass solo which is also fairly simple apart it's just difficult getting into it.

+1,000,000

Cool. Things are looking up. I was just hoping your job situation wasn't impacting on the band and you wern't imagining stress from the other members.