TimR

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1353000656' post='1870386'] Wasn't this thread about mustang Sally. [/quote] No. Mustang Sally is the example, the undercurrent is that people who play it are lazy and lesser players and not worthy of being called musicians. Somehow playing it lessens you as a person or musician. Much the the same way as Moondance does for a Jazz bassist.

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1352996685' post='1870325'] Matey - snobbery doesn't occur when you're being different to somebody else - vive la difference , as they say in Switzerland - snobbery occurs when you think you're being better than somebody else. [/quote] That's not quite right as we're all better than each other at a lots of different things. It's when you don't give people respect because they are not as good as you. Strive to be the best and celebrate when you are the best but remember you weren't always, and won't always be, the best.

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1352991144' post='1870248'] ... My point is that there are people who think 'I'm a proper musician and it's beneath me to play it'. Well - that's bollocks , that is. [/quote] Exactly.

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1352985536' post='1870135'] ... My point was I have seen bands- and depped for them - that have a set list of hundreds of songs to choose from and I also have been in bands where the set list has been really thought out well, even thought there have only been 30 odd. ... Dismissing a song is not really down to musical snobbery at all- I just think that to be a successful cover band you have to be different and have your own niche- and that may not include easy songs that any band could do in their sleep ( however popular ) [/quote] This is kind of my point. If it suits your set then play it. If not, don't jam it in just because it's popular. But then again, if you're a soul band then it is a basic requirement, however cheesy... Having a well thought out set is key. Turning up with a folder of 200 songs and throwing the set together on the fly never really works. As for making tunes more interesting, that's a whole can of other worms. I've just been listening to a live recording of a band where the bass player has tried to make his part more interesting, so have the keyboards, the guitarist, the trumpet, trombone and drums. It's certainly more "interesting".... It's only notes, how hard can it be!

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1352983010' post='1870063'] I think he knows what he's talking about. In my experience it is better to have a terrific set of a maximum of 35 songs than hundreds. There is a difference between having a so so set of many than a brilliant set of a few. [/quote] So you have only ever played 35 songs in your life? How long are your gigs? That's only two hours of material at a push! The point is; the band has played hundreds of songs. We've still got charts for them all and if we needed to we could play any one of them. The reason that we have a set list of 50 terrific songs that we play on a regular basis is because they're terrific. You find that out only by trial and error. Songs one band can pull off others can't, turn up to a pub gig full of a certain age group and try to get them going with Lady Gaga and you'll get into problems. If you can afford to chose which gigs to do then it's different, but if you're in the market for functions you will struggle. Mustang sally has 3 chords and 5 noes of the pentatonic scale. It's hardly taking up valuable space in your brain or learning time. Dismissing a song that the audience request and like because of snobbery is up to the individual band but no one is getting bookings turned down because Mustang Sally is on their setlist and the audience don't like it. If they were no one would play it.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1352978666' post='1869992'] At first I thought your reply was a facetious response arguing that if you're not playing Mustang Sally you must be playing some indigestible self-indulgent nonsense, but then I realised it was a clever metaphor to demonstrate that the reason there are thousands of bands playing Mustang Sally is because none of them have the imagination to realise that there are acres of middle ground they could be occupying. [/quote] Quite frankly, you don't know what you are talking about. It's ONE song in hundreds of songs we play. If a band were to play a 10minute extended mix several times during their set you might have a case. Get a grip man!

It's one song in a 3 hour set. Hardly lazy! If there are other party songs we think that will go down well; we try them and if they don't go down well they get scrapped. After a few years all bands who have gone through this process end up with a back catalogue of a couple of hundred tracks, 50 of which we know will work. Why do all bands play similar sets? 1. They've been through the above process. 2. As people move from band to band they 'bring' songs with them. 3. We go to see a band and see what songs get a good reaction. 4.... We keep the rest of the set current by chucking out chart hits that have gone out of the charts and adding new ones. That can be a lot of hard work for sometimes little reward, especially if you're not gigging every week.

Difficult to dance to. Great to tap your foot, nod your head, air guitar, but the chicks can't dance to it.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1352903692' post='1869139'] Could well have been Lenny himself, he's known to play all the instruments on many of his tracks and he's a supremely talented bass player! [/quote] Definitely Tony Breit.

Tony Breit?

[quote name='mep' timestamp='1352839380' post='1868284'] OK. this is the transcription for the whole song from a 1993 guitar magazine. ... [/quote] Yes that's the one. It's great. 5 bar, 6 bar, 9 bar and 17 bar sections and a bar of 2/4 thrown in for good measure. Drummers nightmare

I learned it from a transcription from a magazine and it's quite difficult in terms of extra bars, our drummer used to do 16 bars and try to come in and it always ended in a car crash, there's some odd stuff going on in the outro too.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1352832041' post='1868111'] Count it out in your head - a straightforward 16 bars (divided into 2 sections of 8 bars)! [/quote] No. There's a 5 bar section just before the guitar solo, with a couple of beats of bass lead in, then the guitar solo is 17bars long. The 17th bar is ringing guitar and a couple of beats of drums. There's a few 6 bar sections throughout the song too. You may not be aware of it because a lot of it you feel rather than count.

It's odd. From memory as above it's just chromatics but it's not exactly 16 bars long.

.... and guess what. All those number 1s Stock Aitken and Waterman produced were covers of 50s and 60s tunes. Nothing changes. There will always be x-factor or opportunity knocks or whatever, there will always be original material of dubious quality, and there will always be tunes that stand the test of time. Time only, will tell.

[quote name='he man812' timestamp='1352678468' post='1866146'] He's right TIM, they are top bands [/quote] Yes, but he's missed Adam and the Ants, Tenpole Tudor, Toyah....

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1352677859' post='1866127'] ...of course this depends on what bands you are refering to... [/quote] Exactly. I just remember, literally tons of sh*te being produced. There was some very good music, but at the time it was difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. Who wants to have a stab at what music from the 2010s will be popular in the 2040s?

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1352677026' post='1866105'] You depressing bastard And wrong. [/quote] Lol. I'm wrong that it was sh*te, or wrong that it's now considered good? I hope to god it's the latter. Joking aside, Rick Astley, Mel and Kim and all the Stock Aitken Walkman stuff was well ahead of its time....

[quote name='he man812' timestamp='1352673981' post='1866058'] ... Ignoring bad music has to be encouraged otherwise it will remain big forever. ... [/quote] I grew up in the 70s and 80s. The 80s in particular were notable for the complete sh*te that was being produced. The sh*te is now pretty much considered quality music.

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1352665428' post='1865905'] I promise not to, so long as, when I've come to be communicated with and moved by feelings expressed, you still entertain me. [/quote] It's a deal, I can cry and everything. Kind of my point, there should always be an element of entertainment.

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1352664998' post='1865894'] Music is entertainment and expression and communication. Sometimes all at once, sometimes not. [/quote] Well, if you want to communicate with me and express yourself, please don't do it to me when I've come to be entertained.

[quote name='Blademan_98' timestamp='1352661450' post='1865808'] I have not watched the show myself but my daughters have. It is aimed at the young - it gives them the feel good factor. The hope that fame and fortune can come to the ordinary person. That is what entertainment has been about since the war years. Opium for the masses I like making my own music. Playing in a band. Listening to blues, rock and even jazz lol. If you don't like it don't listen and agree with your other half, yes you do take music very seriously!!!! [/quote] You are a very wise person. Music is entertainment. If it entertains someone, it has done it's job. There are many people out there in original bands trying very hard to write good music but missing the Entertainment side. I've sat and listened to some very musically good singers and players but left after the first set because I was bored to tears. I've stayed all night watching some great entertaining bands who've struggled to get to the end of intros together.

[quote name='Subbeh' timestamp='1352656133' post='1865700'] What bugs me is that so many of the entrants go on about how music is their life, all they've ever wanted to do was perform. Do they go out and find a band? go to open mic nights or do anything to further their dreams? no they wait for a 'talent' show to turn up on their door steps before they'll do anything. Obviously this isn't true for all of them but seems to be the case for the majority, I can't work out how they really want to do this but have never got off their arses and tried. [/quote] I know lots of people who have auditioned from our local stage school. All very talented singers, dancers and actors. Most of them perform regularly to large audiences, many of them have gone on to have main roles in West End Shows and parts on TV. The X-factor are not looking for people who are good, they're looking for a back story that gets the phones ringing.

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1352651332' post='1865592'] ... because everyone enjoys music on different levels.. ... [/quote] It's not a singing or music competition, they're looking for someone with the X-factor. Just remember that and the fact that no one knows what the X-factor is....

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1352649111' post='1865554'] Exactly. The death still goes on to this day in the name of freedom. I like to go along to our village War Memorial for the short service each year. It always annoy's me that those in their cars do not give a little respect and stop for that five or ten minutes. No, they don't have time for that. They have to get to wherever they are going. To enjoy themselves, to do what they want to do. There are many hundreds and thousands who cannot do that. Rant over. [/quote] I was out running today a 11:00. I ran past our memorial at 11:10 as people were dispersing. Just because I was running doesn't mean I'm not thinking. In fact it gave me more freedom to think than listening to someone's speech. Driving past a memorial is, however, a bit crass, but hopefully those passing did do some thinking at some point. I don't know anyone who thinks badly of Remembrance Sunday.