TimR

[quote name='endorka' post='940724' date='Aug 31 2010, 10:18 AM']Intros/endings are really important - if you mess them up, it tends to be more noticeable and memorable to the audience than any other part of the song. Messy intros/endings will give the audience a poor perception of the band. Jennifer[/quote] That's my view as well. They're not messy just not always the same and so I think that can lead to a few nervous glances amongst us.

How much work as a band do you put into your endings? I played a gig on Saturday where quite a few of the endings we played were nothing like what we had rehearsed. Not really a problem as the crowd probably didn't know any better. I've been in bands where every ending has been crash bang and drawn out until the drummer thinks it should end which is tedious and boring and to me shows lack of imagination. I've been in bands where the endings have been practiced more than any other part of the tune. I've also been in bands where we've had no practices and everyone just takes their cues from the singer and ends as tightly as they can by watching each other. Probably the tunes (covers) in question don't need tight endings but I like good endings that make the band sound tight. We do have several tunes that we have worked on tight endings for and work very well so I don't think there will be an issue suggesting we work on a few more. I know we can do better but before I broach the subject with the band I'm just after some opinions.

[quote name='Doddy' post='939938' date='Aug 30 2010, 01:06 PM']You mention that he didn't speak to anyone wearing a 'band needs a drummer' t shirt- how many of you wore one of them? Yes,he acted like a knob but it's not cool to wear a shirt like that at the gig if you actually do need one.You might have found it amusing,but he probably thought that you were sticking it to him.It's not an excuse for walking out,but it's a decent reason to get pissed off[/quote] I thought it was the drummer that was wearing the t-shirt. Making some sort of statement.

[quote name='garethfriend' post='939816' date='Aug 30 2010, 10:20 AM'].... I have a far out theory involving two of the WAGs which will never be proven. For those who were wondering he is'nt (at least in terms of years) a stroppy teenager he's like mid to late 30's ...[/quote] Women and aproaching 40. No more needs to be said. Its not called the mid life crisis for nothing

[quote name='Dr.Dave' post='939774' date='Aug 30 2010, 08:29 AM']A shame when someone accepts the challenge to act like a professional then behaves like an amateur. A feather in caps though to those who take a 'show must go on' attitude and do the job they were employed to do. Grace under pressure - good on you all.[/quote] Agreed. I think you are doing amateurs a bit of a dis-service though How old is this guy? - Don't answer that! I've known professionals in their 60s behave like that. Usually something is going on in their lives somewhere else and their behaviour is manifesting itself in a bad way on their friends. I probably come across as a bit of a bleeding heart liberal but if he is the good 'valued' freind he thinks he is you should at least go for a beer and talk man-o-man about it. I left a band after another pointless argument because I had other things going on and the drummer was a selfish arrogant dick who had no empathy with anyone else's situation but I would never behave like that.

3. But this poll is flawed. There are, of course, only two answers. "Not enough" me. "Too many" Mrs. R.

3:16 The Duellists. Say no more!

Just got in. You've missed the opportunity to burglarize my house this week. But then you would have had to get past my wife..... .....good luck with that.

From the website advice thread: [quote name='Jesso' post='778323' date='Mar 18 2010, 10:48 AM']Just wanted to post something here in praise of Oldgit.... He has gone far above and beyond the call of duty with all the help he gave on my bands website. It's gone from "okay" to "pretty good if I do say so myself". And, most importantly, I'm quite sure all this help has resulted in an increase in bookings for The Panoramics (my band). I still can't understand where he gets all the spare time for his charitable contributions, but by now he must have amassed a huge reserve of good karma.... your definitely going to heaven Si! Some day I hope to be able to pay him back in some way, because honestly it is so rare to come across a stranger on the internet (or in real life) who is willing to go out of their way to help out of the goodness of their own heart. He offers top quality advice, no doubt which is worth a pretty penny if I'd been looking for someone's professional services. And have no doubt, Oldgit is definitely a professional when it comes to website usability. He knows his stuff. I hope this doesn't come across too gushy, but if anyone out there gets a chance to work with or is offered help by Si (Oldgit), bite his hand off. Just in-case your interested seeing the site all the work was done on, its this one: [url="http://www.thepanoramics.com"]http://www.thepanoramics.com[/url] Thanks Jesse[/quote] I couldn't agree more. His advice did the same for our band. He must have spent a day just emailing me.

Not on any Albums. That's what they employ ghost players for. Session musicians who sneak in and overdub the lines without even the band knowing it's been done. I've seen plenty playing awfully live though. None spring to mind though.

Good luck. The most important thing I've found is that the band are all doing it for the same reasons. If just one person is doing it for the money it all falls apart. Similarly if the person driving the band wants to be out every weekend and the others only want to be out when they've got nothing better to do. A lot of the time bands form for a bit of fun and some things are assumed and never discussed. Also people change over the years, get girlfriends/married/new jobs/kids etc. They EXPECT the band to change with them while the others can't understand why the person who has changed has to commit less. Its always best to have these discussions as soon as you feel things are drifting rather than hope they'll get better. We ended up agreeing one gig a month. Some months 2 or more gigs, some none. Then I joined another band to fill in the dates when the others didn't want to play.

[quote name='molan' post='922765' date='Aug 12 2010, 02:11 PM']Wow - so this one bought a few major issues out of the woodwork then! Looks like the band have now split based on the responses to an NYE gig Views were so polarised that it made one key member decide that he'd had enough, this prompted others to raise a few things as well so it looks like not only are we not doing the NYE gig but we aren't going to be doing any more gigs together now. . .[/quote] Ouch! That's a bit rough. My conversation went a bit like: OK we're in a function band but no one wants to do summer because that's summer holiday time so that's weddings and summer balls out then and no one wants to play Christmas and NYE either. When exactly do you expect to do these functions then.

[quote name='molan' post='922268' date='Aug 12 2010, 07:49 AM']I must admit that the band views on this have been really split. Couple of us think it would be fun to be out playing on a NYE instead of sitting at home watching Jools. One person said he'd much rather be doing exactly the reverse! Two people saying £175 minimum. The gig is tops of 40 mins drive for anyone so not a big hassle in that regard. I have a distinct feeling that some ban members have aspirations above the band's capabilities and that this is going to be an ongoing battle. . .[/quote] That's exactly what happened to us. The next year I bought up the subject in June and we had a discussion about exactly what people wanted and expected. I said I wasn't happy that certain people didn't want to be playing on potentially the best night of the year. I'm in a band to play and turning any gig down is ridiculous. OK, I want to get paid a realistic amount but some gigs pay well some don't and you take the rough with the smooth. We came up with a figure. Bearing in mind that the keys player said he would play for free and the sax wanted lots. You can't please everyone, but I said we could gig without sax if she didn't want to play - besides its more money for the rest of us . So when the agent asked us that year I was in a better position to negotiate a price with the agent. Some still moaned even though I'd got them what they had asked for. We did the gig and everybody said they would definiately do it again if asked. This is CASH as well I don't even get £175 for working a 10 hour Satuday O/T in my day job after I have paid TAX.

I don't think that the number of people in the band is relevant. Unless the restaurant specifically want your band they would probably be happy with a three piece. Are you pros? What would you normally get for playing there on a Sat night? A lot of people think that NYE is a golden ticket to charge lots. A lot of clubs/pubs make practically no money in Jan/Feb and need the Christmas/NYE events to make enough to cover this. I'll echo the comment above. It's mid August now, only 4 months to NYE how many enquiries have you had or are you likely to get? I had the same argument with my band over £160 each plus free meal (on a normal Fri/Sat we would have got £80 each and a staff discount), they turned it down and I spent NYE that year watching F.....g Jules Holland on TV.

It's August now. Just keep a record of everything you spend and receive. Keep receipts and write it all in a book. By the time January comes you will have a fair idea of what sums are going to be involved. When you know then ask an Accountant. The IR can't ask you for anything until the TAX year is complete anyway. Can they? I just kept a list of all the gigs I had done and how much I got paid for each one. If you also keep a list of all the rehearsal dates and how much the rooms cost. Put reciepts for gear in an envelope. You can easily do a googlemaps for mileage at a later date if it comes to that. You'll probably then find out how much your hobby is actually costing you.

What's the line up? Blondie had Guitarist + Keyboards, ACDC two guitarists. Live and Let Die - Wings had a full orchestra.

IME they mean that the verses, choruses and mid sections are in the same order as the original. Keyboard and guitar patches are the same and solos are note for note. Put the songs on your iPod in a playlist and listen to them everywhere you go until you know them inside out. Then pick up your bass and learn the bass lines. I was once in the situation where I had learned a bunch of tunes as requested note for note. We came to play one of them and half way through the first verse the guitarist stopped us and said I wasn't playing it right.. Me: "Well that's how it is on the original" Guit: "No, it goes like this" <plays notes very fast> Me: "OK then - play that again, slower" Guit: <plays notes again very fast> Me: "Hold on - I'll get my iPod out." <play tune on iPod> Guit: "Oh OK, but that's not how we play it." Me: " " We ended up doing it as per the original and it wasn't the only tune that I "changed" that night.

[quote name='flyfisher' post='917242' date='Aug 6 2010, 06:01 PM']I'm not convinced. The venue owner is putting on a show for the public. The public are paying him, not the band. The band's contract is with the venue owner, not the public. Does the venue owner require temporary bar staff to have PLI? Having said that, I agree that things could get messy, but I suspect that's because the insurance industry likes it that way so they can sell olverlapping policies to everyone instead of a simple, comprehensive policy for the venue itself.[/quote] Temporary bar staff are being employed by the venue - that is clear cut. Who are you, the Bass player, being employed by? Is the venue paying you or "The Band". What is "The Band". Do you have a leader? Is he paying you. It all gets very messy and when there is a problem and you are going to get sued - people will point fingers and get very slippery. [quote name='flyfisher' post='917242' date='Aug 6 2010, 06:01 PM']I understand your point, but surely ownership of an item doesn't make you liable if someone else 'steals' it and harms someone with it? Are you liable if someone steals your car and kills someone with it? if so, then the world really is going mad.[/quote] Did you take all precautions necessary to prevent this happening or did the venue take all precautions necessary? Do you want to be paying a lawyer to determine this or would you rather your insurance dealt with it. Our company car insurance only covers people employed by the company to drive our cars or people who have been named to drive them. This reduces the risk to the insurance company and keeps the costs down. No doubt the venue could get insurance that covers every band but the insurance would be expensive. Some big venues do - others say you must provide it. When was the last time a pub asked to see your insurance certificate? [quote name='flyfisher' post='917242' date='Aug 6 2010, 06:01 PM']Yep, that's a fair, though different, point. If the band has contracted with the bride and groom then non-appearance would be a breach of that contract. It's not a PLI issue though.[/quote] Agreed. That was just a general insurance point.

The venue insurance covers the venue owner from damage that the venue owner does and hopefully any of the venues employees. As you are not technically directly employed by the venue owner you will not be included on his insurance. I suppose they could but that would make their insurance pretty expensive and difficult to manage. Hence the post I made earlier about making sure that THE WHOLE BAND is covered, not just the person taking out the insurance. The punter will sue the venue who will be protected by their insurance who will then come after you. What happens if someone climbs onto the stage and throws your mike into the audience and hurts someone? Do you want to be arguing over whose fault it is or just pass the problem to your insurance company's lawyer? If your van breaks down on the way to a £20,000 wedding do you want to be arguing with the Bride and Grooms insurer? For the sake of £100 you save yourself a lot of hassle and money.

[quote name='TimR' post='916778' date='Aug 6 2010, 10:25 AM']I was insured with music guard. BUT again the insurance is only for the person with the cover NOT the band so each member needs their own insurance. If you just want liability insurance they do "liabilityguard" only £19 a year. [url="https://www.jltonline.co.uk/secure/faq.asp?product=LiabilityMusic&promCode=&question=3"]https://www.jltonline.co.uk/secure/faq.asp?...&question=3[/url][/quote] Did some more digging as I need to renew and ideally insure my band as well. I would speak to them as they will extend the insurance to "Associates" ie other members of the band, roadies etc. Obviously at cost

I was insured with music guard. BUT again the insurance is only for the person with the cover NOT the band so each member needs their own insurance. If you just want liabilty insurance they do "liabilityguard" only £19 a year. [url="https://www.jltonline.co.uk/secure/faq.asp?product=LiabilityMusic&promCode=&question=3"]https://www.jltonline.co.uk/secure/faq.asp?...&question=3[/url]

Watch that the insurance covers all of the band and not just the person named in the insurance.

[quote name='flyfisher' post='915962' date='Aug 5 2010, 01:50 PM']Yep, you've got it - we're a band of mates playing for fun and managing about one gig per month, mainly at private parties and other events rather than the regular 'pub circuit' (although we have played pubs). Plus, I'm the 'outsider' really in terms of how long we've all known each other, so it's not really my place to sack anyone. I know of farmfactory but we usually use rehearsal facilities in Hertford.[/quote] Is that Chris Foster's place Graphic Nature? He's usually pretty open and relaxed have a word with him.

[quote name='bigjohn' post='915828' date='Aug 5 2010, 12:25 PM']... Have you thought of asking him to come and jam, just you and him? That would provide a decent time and place to work on him without making him feel bad.[/quote] As I suggested earlier and I've just realised flyfisher is in Hertfordshire. A big county I know but are you anywhere near Welwyn? Here's the rehearsal studio I mentioned earlier that does a 'single' musician rate. [url="http://www.farmfactorystudios.com/"]http://www.farmfactorystudios.com/[/url]

[quote name='Lord Sausage' post='915153' date='Aug 4 2010, 05:07 PM']This is quite a sweeping statement! Do you have foreign evidence to back up and compare this with (perhaps its all the world). How do you know this is a problem with all genres all over the country. In the majority of bands i've been in we've always pushed to improve each other or just sack bad uns.[/quote] That depends on if you are in a pro-band or a band of mates doing it for fun. Sacking a mate is a difficult thing to do. There have been several threads here asking how to do it. Do we - Disband and form again - sent a text - etc... This sort of thead doesn't seem to come up in the more 'american' Bassplayer forum. It's definitely an English thing. In general we're more reserved and afraid of upsetting people's feelings. (Unless you're from Yorkshire that is )