TimR

[quote name='TimR' post='989729' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:30 PM']... It's like doing an engineering degree knowing how to strip down and rebuild an engine but not being able to read the manual or write a report afterwards..[/quote] There are plenty of engineers who can strip and rebuild engines following the manual, but the best ones are those that have read the manual, understand how the engine works and can build a better one to fit your needs, and write a manual for it.

[quote name='skej21' post='989721' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:23 PM']Totally agree. That's why I urge my students to master as many areas as possible. There's a preconception that classical musicians can only read, and pop musicians can only busk, but as musicians we should master at LEAST both of these skills. I hate the phrase "jack of all trades, master of none", or "one trick pony"... Musicians shouldn't happily accept such stereotypes and should aspire (and be encouraged to aspire by their tutors) to master a range of fundamental skills, such as playing by ear/feel, reading, music theory and composition.[/quote] I see where you are coming from now. Your earlier post was badly worded. Basing course entry purely on classical gradings is bad but do you want to be on a course where people are being taught what a quarter note is during their first lesson? Its a filter process to make sure that the musicians reach a prerequisite. Pop music IS full of theory and if you are going to write it during the course and hand it in to be marked you're going to need to know a fair bit of theory. It's like doing an engineering degree knowing how to strip down and rebuild an engine but not being able to read the manual or write a report afterwards..

[quote name='risingson' post='989682' date='Oct 15 2010, 09:33 PM'].... the theoretical side of graded exams has no bearing on popular music as it stands whatsoever. ....[/quote] What do you base this observation on? What theory grade have you studied to?

[quote name='Spike Vincent' post='989552' date='Oct 15 2010, 06:56 PM']In those cases the bassline was considered the melody,and if it's the original copyrighted recording that's sampled then that's another HUGE can of copyright worms.And totally off topic.[/quote] That's what I thought and it wasn't Queen who sued, it was Mercury, Taylor, Deacon, May, & Bowie who are all named as having the rights to the song. It was settled out of court and one of the early cases involving sampling. Which is where I was going really. As bass players are you being included in the writing credits? Does your band have a formal agreement? Do you think it's necessary?

[quote name='Delberthot' post='988739' date='Oct 15 2010, 01:48 AM']Geezer Butler wrote most, if not all, of the lyrics for Black Sabbath[/quote] Yes, I'm sure there are loads of examples. Neal Peart writes the lyrics for Rush. I would guess without googling that M*rk K*ing and Sting write a fair amount of their music too. It's not uncommon, most bands are performing music written by someone else, even if that person has never sung or recorded the song before. I think all the Spice Girls stuff was written by someone else but they insisted that they were all credited as well. A smart move! In one band I was in we had a friend who wasn't in the band who used to give us lyrics/poems that we would set to music. I'm just interested because in the cover band thread I few people were saying that they would rather perform their own material than someone else's. As I understand it only the lyrics and melody are copyrightable. If you're only coming up with a bass line are you actually performing your own material? Loz said his singer wrote the words which seemed like a cop out, but he's probably creating 90% of the song words and melody, even though someone else is coming up with riffs and chord structures. I'm wondering how you have all agreed to split the royalties and songwriting credits if you ever became famous. Bilbo, technically you're not in a band if you are writing stuff at home for yourself that never gets performed. Or do you have friends that come round and you just play to yourselves, which is still technically performing. Have you thought of giving the music to a band to perform.

In the case where everyone writes different parts do you keep a note of who has written what?

Ok so the Coverband thread is getting long and I think the point is getting missed. How many of you as bass players actually have any input into your originals band songs other than helping with the arrangement by coming up with a nice bass line. Pual McCartney is a good example of a good song writer who also played bass. It's not meant to be a contentious issue but I'm sure it will become one. Really I'm just interested.

[quote name='Bassassin' post='988145' date='Oct 14 2010, 03:48 PM']Like I said several (hundred) pages back - if you're a bassist in an originals band, nine times out of ten you'll be playing music that someone else has written anyway. It makes no difference beyond what you personally want & enjoy. J.[/quote] Well it couldn't have been more than 15 pages back - but it must seem like it. 2 new pages just today! You're absolutely right but Bilbo hinted at something else. Its not about us, we perform a supporting role. We don't write the music, we may have had an input into the arrangement by coming up with a bass line. BUT how many of us bass players ACTUALLY WRITE THE WORDS AND MELODY? I'm off to start a new thread.

[quote name='pablyth' post='987428' date='Oct 13 2010, 09:20 PM']... Every gig one of us stuck our head in the big martin bass bins to make sure they were working. ...[/quote] It's time as well as volume related. If you're only subjected for a short while it has less effect. Although night after night who knows?

If it has a Yellow Caution class II Laser sticker on it then it will be OK. If it has a Red Danger class n Laser sticker on it then run away. If it has no sticker on it run away even faster. The lasers linked to have a key switch on them which makes me think you should run away fairly quickly. Have a look at this [url="http://www.nu-light.co.uk/lasers/lsafety.htm"]http://www.nu-light.co.uk/lasers/lsafety.htm[/url]

A few pages of info here: [url="http://www.deafnessresearch.org.uk/1925/about-tinnitus/what-is-tinnitus.html"]Tinnitus - Deafness Research Org.[/url]

My tastes in music seem to change on a daily basis. I don't have any set preference for any particular tone. I tend to alter my tone to fit in with what and how the rest of the band are playing and what the room acoustics are like. Normally this tends to be limited to where I pluck or how I set the balance between the pickups. The graphic sorts the room tone. When I was 17 and playing in an originals band I was into Steve Harris, Billy Sheehan and Geedy Lee. For about 5 years it was roundwounds with just enough clack.

Yeah that Leddy King bloke who plays the long guitar with only four strings and can sing at the same time is awesome. He doesn't even use a pick. You should check out their 4224 album.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='981641' date='Oct 8 2010, 02:45 PM']Say what you like about the monstrous record companies of yore but they acted as a fairly efficient sh*t filter. Now that every self-deluding spod and his mate has got garageband, the netz is an arse-flood of derivative, badly executed material with all the appeal of a nasty case of projectile leprosy. I'd be perfectly happy to see a revival of interest in 'Originals' if the output was any good. It isn't.[/quote] This is because the venues used to put the sh*t bands on during the week and had a bit of pride in who they would put on at the weekends. I'm wondering if now they'll just put anyone on who will draw a crowd. Which takes me back to my post about 5 days ago about the band I was in during the 80s. People came to see us because it was the place to be and not because we were good. Maybe it has always been the same, but we never got a big Friday or Saturday night, even though we packed out the Tuesday and Wednesday slots. Maybe even back then the clubs knew that their reputation counted on having good bands. I do go to see originals bands both on a weekdays and on Saturday and Sunday nights and the quality is variable. I wouldn't say that the music from the Saturday night bands is a lot better than the Weekday ones (better is a subjective term) but they are (generally) more proficient at producing and performing those songs. It's down to promotion, if a club/pub regularly promotes good quality originals and gets a good reputation for doing so they'll get good repeat business from people who would rather go and see cover band that risk a dodgy originals band. With less and less venues doing live music and people who have less time and money to go out seeking good music this has got to be the way to go. Why play in a covers band - audience numbers. BUT I am also happy to play on a weeknight to a half empty pub if the people are going to enjoy what I play. Playing covers will guarantee that. Orginals may not. I have and do play in originals bands but preferably to a receptive audience, which means that my filter is pretty high and I don't play just to play.

I guess I should rethink my plans for a Level 42 tribute band then?

I saw them at Wembley arena in the mid 80's. Mark King flew across the stage on wires in the dark with just the LEDs on his bass shining. It was very exciting....... ....to a 14 year old and his girlfriend.

No I'm pretty sure that there was music in the 80s that was manufactured purely for the clubs in Ibiza and to make money from. They'd bring out a tracks every week that were bought by DJs, played in clubs and thrown away. Similar to lift music, no one actually listened to it, it served a purpose and that was all. Sure it was music but no one really liked it. Cover bands would never be able to reproduce it and if you played it to anyone now they would think you were mad. I'm not talking about the Pepsi and Shirley type stuff which obviously had a lot of thought and emotion put into it and wasn't just a vehicle to make money out of.

So the shelf life of music is not dependent on time, but rather on the consumer. Novel. This means there will always be a market for old and tired music. If the consumer becomes tired of listening to it then the consumer must search out new fresh music. So there continues to be markets for both cover bands and originals and they are completely different markets. There is also another driving force - fashion. Teenagers don't want to be seen to listen to the same unfashionable music their parents listen to. Although plenty will do it happily at home I'm in my 40s, I lived through the 80s and my personal opinion is that most of it was really poor music. I have a lot of friends in their 30s who feel they missed out on the 80s and they love the tunes. I believe that all the dross has now been weeded out to leave tunes that have matured with time. 80s cover bands do extremely well.

[quote name='Bilbo' post='978014' date='Oct 5 2010, 09:42 AM'].... Like food, its better and more nourishing when its fresh, be that KT Tunstall, Trivium, John Taverener or Phronesis. ...[/quote] Very good point. At which point does it mature and at which point does it go off?

[quote name='Bassassin' post='977695' date='Oct 4 2010, 09:27 PM']I'm not sure anyone's even implied that it is, have they? J.[/quote] Maybe not on this thread. I take the original question as what is the appeal of playing other people's music? What is the alternative if you don't write your own? It doesn't mean you are somehow not a proper musician.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='977705' date='Oct 4 2010, 09:35 PM']Is the dude in a Korean factory making Fender clones a luthier though?[/quote] Depends on how much of the clone he has made. If he has just assembled parts from a machine, no. Am I a carpenter if I can assemble an Ikea chair?

It's is not essential to be able to compose good music to be a musician. Does a carpenter have to be able to design furinture? Is he still a carpenter if he follows plans. I know plenty of musicians who play in west end shows every night , or orchestras around the world. They follow the dots. They teach by day. They are professional musicians making a living from playing music. When Mozart et al wrote music, did they require the orchestra to come up with their own versions of the parts they had written? Isn't The London Symphony Orchestra just another covers band? It is my understanding that you can only copyright lyrics and melody. All us bass players who believe that we are part of the writing or composing process just because we come up with our own lines are simply deluding ourselves.

[quote name='Dave Vader' post='977314' date='Oct 4 2010, 04:30 PM']Not so much Bilbo, I feel dirty, I play music I do not like, for money, I can feel a 17 year old version of myself chucking fruit at me every time I walk on to a stage. Still, a gigs a gig, and I am a shameless whore.[/quote] There's a fine line between being a whore and being a mercenary.

Excellent one that's Rob Holliday.. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Holliday"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Holliday[/url] [url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/robbiegill/3483541810/"]http://www.flickr.com/photos/robbiegill/3483541810/[/url] Oh and no worries I've updated the Daily Annoyances thread

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='976281' date='Oct 3 2010, 06:52 PM']I was in my teens. Formed an original band. Didn't make it big. Decided that playing covers to people was better than sitting in my bedroom whiddling away. And actually earned money.[/quote] This is getting to be a familiar story here. I really believe that studying the arrangments, forms, and bass lines of hundreds of other people's tunes is the best way to learn. It does frustrate me that playing covers is seen as selling out as opposed to a valuable learning experience. I wish I had learned that before I started playing in originals bands. If I wasn't in a covers band I don't know that I would have had the patience or motivation to learn (study) a high proportion of those tunes. I hated the Beatles tunes with a vengance but I had to learn them, once learned they're a little bit more enjoyable. They pack the dance floors and at least I now know why. In the past I would have asked "What's the appeal of Get Back?" I still don't listen to the Beatles at home though.