TimR

[quote name='Protium' post='976280' date='Oct 3 2010, 06:49 PM']Missed Dave Grohls abilities as a totally awesome multi-instrumentalist [/quote] Why the GTFO? The guy's "a totally awesome multi-instrumentalist " and you give me a one line answer? What other bands has he played in and what instruments? As I say I thought he was a drummer. I'm not one of his followers. Does he play bass guitar on the Prodigy album? - show me a link. Who plays all these multi instruments that he is playing on the album for the Prodigy when they go on tour? As I say "educate me."

[quote name='Protium' post='976268' date='Oct 3 2010, 06:41 PM']GTFO[/quote] What have I missed? Educate me. According to Wikipedia - Grohl played drums on the tracks 'Run With The Wolves' and 'Stand Up' on The Prodigy's 2009 album Invaders Must Die.

All a port does is tune the cabinet to make it resonate at certain frequency. This makes it more efficient at that frequency in a smaller box. The idea being that you don't need a massive cabinet to carry around and your 15" or 10" is still able to produce useful frequencies up to 5kHz. Nice harmonics and clear sound from one speaker cab. That's why we use 15" and 10" for PORTABLE bass cabs. Once you start talking about 18" and 21" SUB speakers their response is not very flat above 1Kz. So as someone already said they will sound horrible. Note this is not the same as a full range 18" bass speaker that some use for bass guitar, again usually in a ported cab. The PA will have crossovers that cut all the frequencies over 50Hz going to the cab. The Prodigy will probably not be too concerned about tring to get their subs into the back of their family hatchback along with the drum kit and then fitting it in a service lift or carrying it down a fire escape in the rain in the middle of the night.

[quote name='Delberthot' post='976037' date='Oct 3 2010, 02:56 PM']They tour with a full band - Dave Grohl played on their newest album [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq46OY-FHIc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq46OY-FHIc[/url][/quote] Ahhh my eyes. I couldn't make out anything from that video. Isn't Dave Grohl a drumer? According to their website he laid down drum tracks.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='975906' date='Oct 3 2010, 12:46 PM']True. But they [i]can [/i]be moulded into a variety of interesting shapes. Ideal for friends and family with Xmas just around the corner.[/quote] You'll still get your hands very messy and once your friends and family have unwraped and played with their gifts I doubt they will want any more of them from you.

You can't polish a turd. With a covers band you know you don't have a turd to start with, You still have to do the polishing, very rarely does a song work just by simply copying what's on the record and sometimes it doesn't work at all. With an originals band you don't know you have a turd, then spend far too long polishing it hoping that it will sparkle. I think if a song works on acoustic guitar or piano then you have a winner. The only easy bit it that the covers band already know that people will like the song. The rest of the work is the same.

[quote name='maxrossell' post='975509' date='Oct 2 2010, 10:56 PM']... You get a function gig, you learn a handful of standards, play for a couple of hours and you can walk away with £300 in your back pocket and you get free drinks all night. And usually you get treated with respect, and if you're any good you get a bunch of repeat work. ...[/quote] If only. Maybe this myth is why the covers bands get so much stick? [url="http://wiki.basschat.co.uk/info:industry:function_rates"]http://wiki.basschat.co.uk/info:industry:function_rates[/url]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='975455' date='Oct 2 2010, 09:56 PM']I suspect TimR was referring to MCBs in the consumer unit rather than every plug or device - an example of where technology advances can be incorporated into updated regs and replace rather imprecise fusewire and minimise consumer error at the same time.[/quote] Indeed. It would be interesting to see how many fires have happened in where an incorrect plug top fuse has been fitted where there has been an MCB at the consumer unit. As I said very early on. It's about minimising risk (with the available funds. You can never eliminate all risk unless you have limited funds.) We already know that the regs allow for a "short" length of cable to be fitted after a large fuse to get down to a smaller rated fuse in distribution systems. depends on what you perceive the risk to be and whether an MCB will contain that risk. My brother has MCBs and RCDs they're tripping all the time. I've told him why.....

I think the answer is staring us in the face. MCBs

[quote name='Marvin' post='975364' date='Oct 2 2010, 08:00 PM']But that still makes little difference to his argument. The size of a driver is, as Snicks pointed out, only a small factor in determining the sound. The fact that keyboards will go down to 27Hz is somewhat academic because you can't hear it. Personally I'd rather have what determines the qualities of a loudspeaker system explained by someone who makes them rather than just uses them. Having spent the last few weeks reading material on, and asking what seems like an infinite number of questions relating to drivers and loudspeakers, from those informed responses this guy comes across as a complete idiot.[/quote] That's odd I can hear the bottom A on my piano perfectly well. You just need huge amounts of power to get the same percieved volume. Hence loads of big speakers. What context are you asking about loudspeakers? If you are looking at standard bass speakers their response falls off dramatically below 100Hz.

No, you're Ok pete. I have no problem with your knowledge, my problem was with you not answering the original question simply but resorting to writing pages of info to "prove" you were a "proper electrician". No one was ever doubting this. You are right about Maplins doing the 5amp. However unfortunately it was the 5amp fuse in my amp that blew and I had a very frustrating trip to B&Q to see lines of 3amp and 13amp fuses, but no 5s or 10s. Hence my B&Q question, it wasn't meant to be a dig. I believe that eventually the UK WILL go to 3A and 13A as you say eventually we will get dragged to European standards. I hope we don't end up like the Italians. One of our guys found a live 415v cable with bare ends coiled above one of our Milan office ceilings.

He's talking about bass in the context of keyboards. Bottom G is 51Hz on a bass guitar, but keyboards will go down to 27Hz and that's before you add any sub harmonic synthesis. As far as I'm aware they don't have a bass player.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='972976' date='Sep 30 2010, 05:38 PM']OK Guys actual electrician here now! Full NIC registered (Not just part P domestic either) This statement above is rubbish![/quote] I think flyfisher has hit the nail on the head. The exchange is what people will be laughing at. I only put my qualifications up because it felt like you were treating me like Joe Public who had no idea. Don't take everything so personally. "Your theory" is a just a manner of speaking. I could have said "The theory". I am a reasonable man but object to being told that my house is going to burn down because I am just going to "whack a 13A fuse in." You have to admit that is pretty condescending. Along with "This statement above is rubbish! " I have an understanding of both sides of the fence being practical and design based. My comment on "irrelevant and tedious" is how your posts come across to me. It is as if you thought I don't know what's in the regs even though you were aware of my qualifications. Can you tell the other people reading the forum where they can get these other size fuses that only an electrician will have? They're not something you can buy at B&Q? What use is that when one blows? Do you have any theories why these fuses are becoming less common?

[quote name='4-string-thing' post='974997' date='Oct 2 2010, 01:49 PM']I think I remember watching the film of the Stones recording Sympathy for the Devil, and seeing Keith playing the bass and Bill Wyman being relegated to percussion (a pair of shakers, as I recall) Though of course, he could still have played on the final version.[/quote] There's quite a bit about Wyman not playing on tracks here: [url="http://www.bassplayer.com/article/bill-wyman-making/August-2010/118861"]http://www.bassplayer.com/article/bill-wym...ust-2010/118861[/url]

[quote name='Doddy' post='974949' date='Oct 2 2010, 01:09 PM']I seem to remember reading an old interview with Zender where he said something like although JK tries to treat it as a band,it is actually just him. Bearing in mind that the first single was JK and a bunch of session guys-including Andrew Levy on Bass. Edit...... In the Feb '98 issue of Bassist,it says that when Jay Kay recorded 'When You Gonna Learn' he didn't have a band-just a roster of 'help out' musicians.He actually put the 'band' together after that first single. So,as far as I see it,Jay Kay is Jamiroquai and can basically hire and fire a he sees fit.[/quote] Ah. So he's not at all like all the other egotistical singers then.

My spell checker hates Jameroquai! He/They have been though a hell of a lot of line up changes. Check [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamiroquai"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamiroquai[/url] for the list of former members. I don't think that he would be referred to as Jamiroquai if he was guesting on someone else's album with their band.

There is a third way. I saw a great covers band last night. I don't think any tune they played had the original parts though. The musicians had all adapted their parts to be so different that only the chords and words were the same. Tempos all different, bass lines and drums nothing like the original. The crowd loved it, they recognised the songs and sang along. My musician mates didn't even notice. Maybe I should get out more..... Music is fun just enjoy it. If you get paid it's a bonus. If you enjoy playing at home to yourself, just in the garage with your band, or to one man and his dog in a pub - is that any different to listening to a cd at home alone, with friends or a juke box in the pub? Maybe people take it all a bit too seriously.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='974564' date='Oct 1 2010, 08:13 PM'].... The current method is still either 3A or 13A so when the 13A is too big what do they do? I am an electrician so have the nouse to use a 5 or a 10 but a 2 day trained guy will not. ...[/quote] I think we finally got there. As I said earlier in the thread I don't want get bogged down in this... Seems I did. My apologies. A good engineer or electrician will not make assumptions based on limited information. "I don't know I'll find out." is always an option. Nobody is expected to know everything. You made assumptions on the sewing machine and the fact that you were the best qualified person to write about electrical engineering on the forum. I have no doubt a Chartered Engineer and whole host of other people will have tears of laughter running down their faces reading the thread. You know your subject and I haven't disagreed with anything you have written. Let's move on from this game.

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='974511' date='Oct 1 2010, 07:36 PM']Tim, leave it. You are clearly out of your depth here. Being a pedant won't make you look like any less of an idiot.[/quote] I'm not out of my depth. I have not disagreed with anything Pete has said. He, however, said I was talking utter rubbish when I said I don't like it when electricians down rate fuses for no good reason. He then spouted off about how knowledgable he is on electrics quoting large bits of text to back up his claim. Pages of the stuff - most of it I have read for work, know and implement every day - most of it irrelevant - and very tedious. The original equipment designer will tell you what fuse to use, not an electrician who thinks the fuse is "slightly" too big. I see it all the time as have other posters. The electrician turns up, down rates the fuse, turns on the gear, all well and good, turns it off and goes away. Next time you turn it on the fuse blows. Great! The electrician never finds out about this because we, being nice English people who never complain, just put the proper fuse back in and don't say anything. This is fine until it happens to you at a gig and no one has a spare fuse or a screwdriver.

"These are examples and you should ensure that the correct fuses are fitted, by consulting the manufacturers instructions." Also known as the specs.

Thank you Pete. The you're an electrician FFS was not supposed to be a slur, it was supposed to make you think about the REAL world. Your theory is all correct but it is only theory and a best practice guide and this is a forum. Producing pages of text where you are second guessing installations and saying that this is what you must do is absolutely pointless. Every installation is different and requires a visual inspection and real world data before you can comment. Fair enough if you are an expert in industrial sewing machines with 2A motors, I apologise. As an electrician you should know this and blanket saying "Put a 5A fuse in it" without even seeing the equipment is just wrong! Just calm down a bit. That web site suggests that you size a fuse by looking at the rating and divide by 250 which you have already stated is wrong. Why should I believe anything else on it? I am well aware of the time/current characteristics for fuses. Tim BEng(hons) Electrical and Electronics engineer.

In fact I play bass to perform music. I want people to look at me and think "Wow, that's a skill to have. That must be great to be up on stage and be able do that". That's because that's how I feel when I'm in the audience watching a band. That's my motivation. Be it covers or originals.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='974082' date='Oct 1 2010, 02:38 PM']I think people in cover bands don't realise that people playing originals aren't doing it to "get famous". Maybe they've been playing covers for so long that they've forgotten what it's like to play music for fun instead of for money. They could do to join an originals band and be reminded of why they started playing instruments in the first place.[/quote] I think that we're probably making sweeping generalisations. When I was in an originals band we wanted to be famous, we thought our music was excellent, we drew large crowds. I now know that the crowds we drew were not there because of the music but because of the excitment of being part of something great. Listening back now to the 3 or 4 hours worth of material we wrote, mabe 30mins of it was really great. None of it was ever performed well though. All the originals artists I know want to get signed to a record deal. If anyone knows of one originals band who just want to perform at home or down their local to a few freinds I would be interested to see/hear them. I have huge amounts of fun in my covers band. I've played 4 gigs this year and been paid £80.

[quote name='paul h' post='974023' date='Oct 1 2010, 02:12 PM']... because I'm 40 and I don't want to be famous any more.[/quote] Yep. I sussed this when I was 22! It takes a lot of hard work and luck to get famous. I've seen some very bitter people who've spent their lives trying to get famous when none of their friends have had the bottle to tell them that their songs are not the great masterpieces they think they are. Lots of unsigned originals artists would do well to play in a covers band to get experience of exactly what music is all about before they even pick up a pen. Being in a covers band is HARD graft too. Anyone who has played a dinner dance will tell you that.

[quote name='fatback' post='973639' date='Oct 1 2010, 10:01 AM'][quote name='TimR' post='973315' date='Sep 30 2010, 10:54 PM'] Sometimes I wish I could get in a band that didn't have to reinvent the setlist at every bl**dy gig! <rant> Just because we've heard and played the songs a hundred times, putting them in a different order will not. 1. Make it more interesting. b. Make more people dance. It just makes it harder to keep my pad in order! </rant>[/quote] Are we in the same band? [/quote] I wonder if this is dependent on how often and the number of gigs you do. In my last two bands we didn't really gig more often than once a month but on the rare occasion we had 2 in a row on Friday and then Saturday even then the drummer changed the setlist. Is it a drummer thing? In both the bands the drummer was in charge of the order.