TimR

It’s when any two musicians try to operate in the same region when they aren’t listening to each other. I once played in a band with two guitarists, it was horrendous. Neither of them could agree on who was going to play what and it was just a sonic mush.

Well, copying songs note for note and playing songs exactly as you have rehearsed hundreds of times is simply playing your instrument using muscle memory. It’s the musical equivalent of riding your bike to work. It’s like the difference between a carpenter and someone who can fit a kitchen. ‘Real’ probably isn’t the right word but certainly there’s a big difference. This thread is evidence of that from replies.

I think you maybe have completely missed the point of my post. It’s the point where you are playing with other musicians to a high standard with very little preparation (sometimes no prep). And you think how the hell did I get here, you question your ability, and you are expecting to be exposed at any minute. Which is total nonsense, because you have prepared, you’ve been playing for years and been in the same situation more times than you can remember and you’re not a fraud at all. It’s certainly not ‘busking’ through the set. You need good musical skills and experience of playing with lots of different musicians to be able to dep competently. The point of Imposter Syndrome is it’s baseless, you’re not an imposter, you deserve to be there and you should be there, it’s just your own psychology undermining yourself. It could just as easily happen to you after months of rehearsals getting tight and playing many gigs and finding yourself on stage in front of tens of thousands of people at a festival.

How many sound engineers does it take to change a light bulb? one, two, one, two, two, two. I’ve never heard a keys player who isn’t far too busy with the left hand. There’s a balance to be had.

@Paul S Good luck. They won’t be expecting too much. Have fun.

@ianrendall that’s a bit of a downer. You probably don’t want to work with musicians like that. If the band don’t smile when you walk in the room that’s not a good start. For a start you’re covering their derrières.

I think that’s the point. It’s a syndrome. People at the top of their game forget all those hours of work that have got them where they are and are suddenly left with that feeling of “How the hell did I end up here? Someone is bound to find me out.” With no reason whatsoever to feel like that. Although I suspect no singer ever felt like that.

Been in the news a bit this week following Michelle Obama’s speech. How many of you guys have been in this situation? I did a dep gig on Saturday night. Was sent the set list, had a brief look through it, met the guitarist and ran through a few numbers. Didn’t seem anything too complex. Turned up to the gig unloaded and set up and then realised I didn’t have a clue what I was doing. Not practiced any of the tunes at home, didn’t know the structure to half the tunes, no ideas of intros or endings. I was screwed. Anyway, felt my way through the gig by using my eyes and ears and smiling a lot. The band thought I was great, the audience thought we were great. We got paid and the band leader was asked for cards. I suppose really that’s what musicians do when they play properly and all this endless rehearsals and preparation with semi-pro bands is mainly just to stoke the singer/guitarists ego. Quite honestly I’d prefer to dep all gigs. Keeps it fresh and reminds me of what a real musician is.

“Not getting lost in the mix” and “chest thumpingly loud” are where the problem lies with bass drum through the PA. most of the bass drum presence is around 120hz, must drummers think it’s around -50hz.

And the drum kit sounds good in the first place. (Proper equipment?)

One thing overlooked here is; what type of music does the drummer listen to outside the band. I played with a rock drummer in a function band. It was a constant battle. He wanted his drum kit to sound a certain way that really didn’t fit with the band. Trying to explain to him that he was a member of the band accompanying the vocals, not the centre of attention for everyone in the audience was impossible. Trying to explain that we couldn’t make his bass drum sound how he wanted because a PA amplifies what you put in and SISO applies, was impossible. Riding in his car was a painful experience as his music was constantly at 11 with all the bass turned up to 11 creating an unlistenable sludge. I sat in a mixing session with him and after an hour the mix was unrecognisable as us and sounded awful. Luckily we ran out of time and left the engineer to sort the mix in his own and he undid all the mess after we had gone. I genuinely think drummers hear things differently to the rest of us. Might be worth finding out what sound he is trying to get and then having the discussion as to whether that sound is possible and if it is how to achieve it or maybe for the drummer to have a rethink about his sound or his position in the band.

Yes. Did 3 or 4 gigs with them. It was fun. He played with the band I was in for an outdoor bbq, and was rock solid. Wouldn’t ask him to play indoors for a function band though.

I’ve found the best solution for this was to put earplugs in when I pulled up to the practice room, otherwise just being in the room during setting up was painful.

This is almost certainly true. There’s also the factor that our tastes change and we are influenced by what we hear and become used to. In the old days, we didn’t know any different. High quality was expensive and fixed to your living room. Now high quality is inexpensive and available everywhere. Certainly amongst ‘musicians’ there is a tendency for them to go see a band and critique the playing, the sound, the arrangement, the £60 eBay bass, while everyone else in the room is leaping about and having a great time. Yep, we lose focus on what is really important to most people.

I think the more people you play with you tend to recognise these behaviours and avoid them early on. Normally they’re evident when you’re starting a band or joining one, or have a new member that’s doesn’t seem to fit.

I think you just have to accept that bands are all like ‘Triggers broom’. Come to think of it, practically all the bands I’ve been in, have also had name changes over the years. The name changes haven’t even been around players moving on either. The band I’m talking about are also rumoured to be thinking of changing their name. I’m really not sure why. Why not just start again with the musicians you want to be in the band? I’m guessing there must be some band owned equipment to consider. Nowt as queer as musicians.

It’s looking like the band I co-founded 20 years ago, and which has only my co-founder left still playing, could be trying to oust him. I left it 8 years ago, mainly due to the immense amount of unappreciated work I was doing and getting nowhere. I think some musicians just think you can sit back and wait for gig enquiries, and if you’re not getting enquiries it’s because of the band’s name, or the colour of the shirts they’re wearing. Websites are free and just appear out of nowhere, as does the PA. There sometimes seems to be a lack of empathy as well, some bands are run like a hardline business. If you can’t make a gig for personal reasons, we’ll get someone who can and use them in future.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1510339282' post='3405815'] But that would go to the xlr input for phantom mics as you say not the instrument input on the di box? [/quote] You can also get balanced TRS jacks which would plug nicely into an instrument without needing a DI box. Don’t know, we weren’t there, so it’s all guesswork as to exactly what happened.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1510335997' post='3405759'] Tbf I'm not sure all ampeg heads have a DI on the back so the sound crew might have had no choice, still not great putting the phantom up you though. I'm not sure that's supposed to happen either tbf, the phantom should just power the di box to save batteries afaik? [/quote] Phantom power is used to power condenser mics. Some equipment will ignore it. Some will go up in smoke.

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1510311921' post='3405475'] ... Going straight to the PA from the instrument via a DI box tends to give a very sterile sound that the eq on the average desk can't do much to correct. [/quote] This is the answer you’re looking for. I suspect the Keys player doesn’t like the way you’re EQing your amp and it’s not suiting the front of house PA. It’s a legitimate reason. You’ll need to experiment and see what the bass DI direct to the PA sounds like. Or as Pete says. If theres a pre/post switch on the amp DI you don’t need that additional DI box.

Once we have tunes up to gig standard I don’t listen to them again. Most tunes suffer from a bit of creep and if I listen to the originals I start to notice things that we have naturally arranged slightly differently to suit our line up. Plus there’s so much music out there, why would I listen to the tunes I play several times a month? I don’t think I even listened to recordings of originals bands I’ve played in. Thinking about it, I’m not really an active listener of music. I tend to listen to all my music in the car rather than in a darkened room. In fact I’m not even a very active TV watcher, most of the time I’m on the internet with the TV in the background. Think I need to go on a meditation course...

[quote name='pfretrock' timestamp='1510238247' post='3404907'] See here: [url="http://mlg.eng.cam.ac.uk/mchutchon/ResonantCircuits.pdf"]http://mlg.eng.cam.a...antCircuits.pdf[/url] See Figs 4 & 7: "The figure shows that the circuit exhibits voltage amplification properties. At the resonant frequency," There is an energy transfer between the inductor and the capacitor, both of which are capable of storing energy. So you can get a voltage or current amplification. But note that the paper says: "It is important to note that as this is a passive circuit the total amount of power dissipated is constant." So you don't get something for nothing! [/quote] I just think the wording that ‘the capacitor stores charge’ is quite humorous. It’s not the way you’d generally look at a capacitor between signal and earth in a high frequency application.

Wow! Where do I get a cable that stores charge from?

Yes. We’re in agreement there.

[quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1510231344' post='3404789'] My point re Motown was that those guys, including Jamerson, were mainly Jazz musicians who were booked for the date, played a chart or cobbled one together in the studio and left without thinking about the music again until they were contacted re touring. You're incorrect on the styles thing. Plenty of folks have played on a variety of stuff. A serious dude I know has Pink Floyd, Bowie, Fleetwood Mac, Christina Aguilera, James Taylor and Spielberg movies on his CV, along with orchestral credits etc. Pretty mixed bag! [/quote] Yes, but they’re not Pink Floyd etc. The core of those bands are the artists. If any old session musician could replace them, they wouldn’t be auditioning people like Guy Pratt and sticking with them. There’s a huge human factor in each individual’s playing. The Who never sounded the same after losing Moon, it took ten years to find a Drummer that fitted, and now after losing The Ox, they’re quite possibly in serious danger of sounding cheesey. I thought most of Jamerson’s lines were improvised? .