TimR

[quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1500847054' post='3340635'] I always thought Eastbourne was for retired wrinklies, and that it was yob free because of the said wrinklies [/quote] I was there a couple of years ago. It's quite a vibrant place, even in late October. I was surprised.

Certainly I don't know many bands that are playing 3 or 4 gigs a weekend for free.

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1500898882' post='3340901'] ... I have even been known to <gasp> play notes in the verse of 'all right now' [/quote] This is exactly what she means. When you come in at the chorus the whole song gets a massive boost. I have purchased a cowbell specifically for this song so I don't look like a spare grinning idiot during the verses.

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1500898882' post='3340901'] There are different styles for different players, as we noticed in the conversation about Chic at Glastonbury and how many people didn't like the bass player playing more notes than he was allowed. For me the bass has to be there and it has to have the presence of all the other instruments. Yes it has to form the bedrock of a song and interface between the drums and the melody, but beyond that I want to hear it and I want to be entertained by it. There is definitely a place in music for bass players playing roots and fifths behind a group and I am not looking down at that. Some people want to play that and some people want to hear that, but I don't want to be that bass player and frankly don't really want to listen to that bass player either. I have even been known to <gasp> play notes in the verse of 'all right now' [/quote] It's not an either or situation. The trick is to find the balance between melody and pure bass. I believe it's called harmony.

What they're talking about there is overplaying. Lots of inexperienced players will add fills and runs and make lines too busy in an effort to make lines stand out and be noticed. Usually ending up with a bass line that tramples all over the rest of the instruments. It's not confined to bass players either, drummers who add fills at the end of every 4 bars, guitarists who widdle away over vocal lines. There's a lot of it that's unnecessary. This is the job of a producer, to decide what should be added and just as importantly what should be left out. It's why a lot of the top producers are ex-bass players, they seem to be able to hear the track as a whole and understand how arrangements should work.

[quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1500826689' post='3340415'] if ya want them punching the air, and have everyone and i mean EVERYONE singing along, try this.. It will be the diamond in your set.. are you ready.... ,,,,, ,,,,, ,, Bob the builder. Yea... i knoowwww. iv seen it with my own eyes and........... it was a rock band if you can get some hairy biker with leathers and triumph tats singing that, then you really are a true musical artist Also... if you catch them on vid singing along.... well... kaching........ think of the bribe money [/quote] We used to do the same with Postman Pat... ...without the bribes of course.

What you're talking about is phrasing. If you had a conversation with someone, each word might be the right word, it might be exactly in the right place but if you don't put the right infection on each word, it will sound dull, it even might not convey the right meaning. Music is usually broken up into 2,4,8 or even 16 bar phrases. Concentrate on learning a tune phrase by phrase, sing it to yourself and get the feel for the rhythm and the accents before you pick up your bass. Don't worry too much if you can't pitch your singing correctly, it's the feel you are after.

From my point of view that's just a list of random covers that go down well. Most bands loosely specialise in a genre. Maybe if you organised them into 3 distinct sets it might make more sense, the songs are great stand alone songs but don't think they work as a set.

[quote name='Monkey Steve' timestamp='1500654056' post='3339428'] I see it as a three way split. 1. Those that have to do it for money so want to play every paying gig 2. Those that do it for fun but playing gigs is more fun than not playing gigs so are happy to commit to whatever comes along 3. Those that do it for fun but will only play gigs when it's fun for them, and want to pick and choose and will put other social arrangements before the band when it suits them. [/quote] #4 Being in a band is hard work and has costs associated with it. You're providing a service (albeit having fun while doing it) and should be adequately renumerated for it, even if it's just to cover those costs.

You'll get weird phasing effects as the sound bounces off the back wall and then couples either constructively or destructively with the waves going straight out to the audience.

Excellent. I've managed to make a dent in the 35 tunes I have to play in 4 weeks time. A shed load of them are 3 chord wonders. Happy days. A shed load of them I've never heard of before though. Not so happy days.

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1500290754' post='3336667'] Depends on how you want to do it - generally i've seen a number of our venues wanting to pay bank xfer so I bill them "band name c/o gapiro" and then as I'm paying them , I assume (and i'm probably wrong) that I can just say for tax purposes that the costs of a gig were, say 200 quid (4 musicians at 50 quid lets say). Does mean i'm gonna get closer to the higher rate of tax... [/quote] There's some discussion on the Tax position towards the end of this thread: http://basschat.co.uk/topic/308588-end-of-cash-in-hand-for-gigs/page__pid__3335934__st__90#entry3335934

Formal business accounts attract fees. You could just open a personal account with two signatories. Draw up a simple contract about what happens to the money when someone leaves, more importantly decide what will happen when someone joins...

http://www.investopedia.com/stock-analysis/2012/what-does-google-actually-make-money-from-goog1121.aspx?lgl=rira-baseline-vertical

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1500134758' post='3335854'] The 5% figure you mention is interesting as its often used by HMRC themselves when considering whether something is material or not and for me is a "sign post" that this may be more than a hobby. So if your music [i]profits[/i] (after deducting all relevant costs) are regularly 5% or more of your total income (whether this is employed or self employed income doesn't matter), I would agree you should think about getting some proper advice and think about whether you are doing your music commercially with a view to a profit, or it is just a successful hobby. And remember even if you're doing this commercially you're allowed to deduct a whole bunch of costs in establishing whether it is actually profitable, including your bass, amps and pedals, agents' fees, studio hire costs etc. There is obviously a grey area where something transitions from being a hobby into a commercial venture and at this margin its important to look at individual facts and circumstances. [/quote] £50 a week is 5% of £1000. If you're earning less than £1k a week and/or making more than £50 . You're going to have to keep a lot of recipts and books in order to explain why you shouldn't pay tax.

The other point is that pubs will prefer to take cards. They're paying something like 0.2% on their transactions. Compared with 0.4% when banking cash.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1500107855' post='3335634'] No more than others bring up they're not in it for the money. Blue [/quote] It's not a personal thing Blue, it's a cultural thing.

[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1500061798' post='3335466'] Agreed. There's going to come a point where internet businesses realise that the people who keep them running need to be rewarded with more than just likes and followers, especially when those likes come from people that get bombarded by adverts every 10 minutes. These businesses operate on the same model as the "we can't pay you but you'll get great exposure" clan. It may work for a select few, but it's just exploitation for almost everyone else. The whole internet success thing needs a big re-think, it's all pretty sketchy at the moment. [/quote] The thing is, the most expensive part of media, is the content creation. So while the user is also the creator (prosumer), social media can grow very large, only requiring small amounts of financial input. The likes of Facebook and Soundcloud are only going to suffer when they are forced to police the content the users produce more rigidly. However the same users are being used to police the content that other users are providing. It's a very interesting and obviously a very new concept.

Ah yes. Rhythm stick isn't a personal goal, it's a requirement for the dep gig! Help!

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1500046696' post='3335365'] I've been talking about attitude. Blue [/quote] Well, I got myself involved in a band. Older guys, practiced hard and sounded great in rehearsal, pro gear, pro attitude to getting and pricing gigs, looked smart, great setlist, on paper it was a licence to make money. Unfortunately as soon as they stepped on stage they all fell apart musically. I think I did 4 gigs before walking away. Shame because the drummer was excellent, but you can't play a gig with just drums and bass while everyone else is making mistakes and forgetting whole sections. Sometimes attitude and application just isn't enough.

Taken in isolation per band per gig, it's not a lot. If you were a pub though £250 a week works out at £13k, potentially £2k-£5k per year per venue on unpaid taxes. Scale that up to brewery level... Assuming they're not engaging hobby bands of course. But while it's all cash, there are no checks and balances in place.

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1500040428' post='3335304'] Most are talking about the audience, not noticing the difference in bass tone. Nothing to do with music difference [/quote] In some cases yes. But I think Blue is talking about attention to detail in music.

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1500038446' post='3335289'] TimR - sounds like you've reached that peak because you have put in the additional effort. Looking at your background in playing and how you describe it you have obviously gained a vast amount of experience over the years. So i guess that answers the OP question in a way. To get a flawless or a good performance requires a lot of dedicated hard work and a drive to put that job in front of other things in life. I guess that's why professional musicians are where they are too. It has to be a balance of what you feel is important to you. Dave [/quote] Yes. But the experience is cumulated. In my case it's sporadic but over several years. For a pro I would expect that experience to be gained quickly in a few years. I think it's more about how you approach your playing. If you join a covers band and stay in that band for years playing with the same musicians concentrating on exact facsimiles of tunes, never having a lesson, you're not going to develop much. Go to college for 3 years and you'd come out with far more experience and knowledge than I have. We also talk about developing big ears. That's listening to lots of different types of music and being able to hear where tunes are going. I.e. Knowing what and where the chord changes are going to be. There are people who are open to music and new ideas and there are people who have very closed minds. Really what I'm saying is that Pro's and more experienced musicians have a massive tool kit and make it look easy, and to some extent it does become extremely easy. There is still the occasional tune that requires a lot of work. Hit me with your Rhythm stick is a tune I have to learn. I've always shied away from learning it. I'm expecting it to take a while (maybe an hour or two?) to transpose and get the right feel. But now I have reason and an excuse to learn it. That's one reason why changing bands often is quite an important driver for me.

[quote name='Panamonte' timestamp='1500026734' post='3335187'] ... [/quote] That's a great story and something that's probably happened to all of us in some form or another. That's the skill of being a good musician though. Someone who just learns the tune parrot fashion and can't adapt when things don't go to plan would be stuck and freeze. Keep smiling and wait for a queue or a nod. Communication, communication, communication.

The pub will have cash in the till. I'm guessing the issue would be how the landlord takes that cash out of the till to pay you. All the cash going over the bar will be accounted for and put into the till as everything is electronically ringed up and has to balance at the end of the evening. Unless staff are pouring drinks for free and pocketing the cash. In which case the stock levels will reduce quicker than the till receipts increase. In a tied house the brewery will notice. In a free house or part free/part tied house there would be a bit more freedom on the beer side. Ultimately the person paying you could easily take £250 out of the till and give you £150 and pocket the change. .