TimR

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1500023953' post='3335163'] Agree with you on reasons Blue. I do regard you as a Professional musician tho as you earn a living from playing. Not sure whether TimR is also a full time musician or is it a hobby. My question was for TimR on how he managed to get to that level himself. If he's a full time musician then i would expect that kind of level. If its a part time job then i'm curious as to how he reached that level. Its not a sarcastic reply to TimR and not having a dig at anyone here. I am curious to know how a part time bassist achieves that higher level. Some guys are just sh*t hot at playing and have a natural ability and that would be the answer to my question. If it's solely down to putting in the additional effort and hard work then that kind of explains why some people are just better at it than others and partially answers Blue's original query on this thread. Dave [/quote] It's just down to making yourself available to play in many different situations with as many different people as possible. Go to Jam sessions, move bands when you think you're not getting gigs or making progress musically, let people know you're available to dep. A lot of people claim they don't have a lot of time to do things but I'm a great believer that if you want to do something you'll find the time. My other hobby is running. It takes up about 7-8 hours a week. But that's only an hour every other day and 3 hours on a Sunday. People say they'd love to do that but don't have the time. Then in the next breath ask if I watched X on TV last night? No, instead of spending that hour watching X I went out and ran. Yes, there are people who work very long hours and have big commitments, those people will be good at work and their other commitments. As you say somewhere along the line you have to draw the line about how much time you can reasonably spend on your 'hobby' without impacting on other things. I've been playing for 35 years as a semi-pro, theatre pits, jazz trios, function bands, thrash metal bands, rock bands, pub and club bands. You just get a feel for how a gig will go and sometimes it's not worth putting in another 10% of effort to improve something by 1%. When the punters won't notice the difference. A three minute pop song shouldn't take more than 15-20 minutes for a band up have gig ready. Some should be gig ready on first or second play through, or even just play at the gig. There's a limited number of songs (standards) that do the rounds and everyone owes it to themselves to just learn them.

Regards professionals having more time to practice, most of the professionals I know don't practice in the same way as hobby players. Once you have achieved a certain amount of experience, playing and learning new material is extremely simple. I have a dep job with a band in 4 weeks where I have to play 35 tunes that I've never played before. I haven't practiced one of them yet let alone met the rest of the band.

My take on this is we all have different levels of talent available to us in our bands. Music is an art form, we are creating art, not a piece of engineering that either works or doesn't. Putting on a performance works on a law of diminishing returns. There comes a point where you're not going to give a significantly better performance with the amount of time and talent available to you. At this point you have to ceed that it's 'good enough' and 'the punters won't notice any difference" if you spent another rehearsal trying to polish what you have. That level is going to be different for every band. It's not an admission of failure, or laziness, it's just being realistic. It has nothing to do with striving to be your best, you may be performing at the limits of the bands ability.

Good point. There's probably also a very small proportion of people being paid cash and claiming benefits.

[quote name='kodiakblair' timestamp='1499888071' post='3334374'] OK. You think they're being above board. I don't so here we part ways. [/quote] Lescherions stated it would be nice if the government looked at Google and Amazon first, a few posters also expressed the same sentiment. I'm just saying they did and changed the law which changed the behaviour of the large corporations. I'm not sure an expensive lawyer makes a lot of difference. Ultimately it would be down to a jury to decide what was reasonable.

[quote name='kodiakblair' timestamp='1499887198' post='3334366'] Nice link TimR only the "loophole" is so good it gets mentioned twice. HMRC can't do a thing unless [color=#333333] ‘arrangements cannot reasonably be regarded as a reasonable course of action’.[/color] [color=#333333]Fine point of law best argued by well paid lawyers which corperations have aplenty. The "[/color][b]The ‘double reasonableness’ test" is an expensive thing for HMRC to prove.[/b] [/quote] So much so that both Google and Amazon have already changed the way they operate as a result?

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1499880771' post='3334304'] The Isle of Jersey, and several others, still have their 'special' position concerning taxes, I believe. It's maybe 'fixed' for Amazon etc (I'm not really convinced, as it happens...), but there are still gaping 'loopholes' for the fiscally astute to benefit from. [/quote] http://www.rossmartin.co.uk/penalties-a-compliance/compliance/1259-general-anti-abuse-rule-gaar-at-a-glance

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1499884365' post='3334336'] Meaning? [/quote] [quote name='Rich' timestamp='1499862369' post='3334124'] Folks, I have edited several posts to remove political content. No more please. [/quote]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1499868067' post='3334173'] Still a drop in the ocean when compared to what G4S, Amazon and google etc [b]didn't[/b] pay. [/quote] FIFY. It's now being paid as the loopholes have been closed.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1499857006' post='3334066'] I'd be surprised if you couldn't, I'm not an expert, but I don't think it makes a difference if it's your hobby, you're still getting an income from it. It's surprising what you can claim each year, stage clothes, suits, black trousers etc, strings and other equipment, software, I can even deduct my Mmus fees, which are classed as personal development. [/quote] You can't if it's a hobby, only if you can demonstrate that you're making money from it in order to run it as a profit. It's either a hobby or a business. If it's a business and you're not making a profit they'll start asking questions.

They have done. See my post above.

[quote name='BassBunny' timestamp='1499854745' post='3334040'] Correct. I do indeed have a great accountant and have received a tax rebate every year since I employed him. It's only when you see the figures at the end of the year, of what it actually costs you to gig regularly, that you realise how much it costs to persue our "hobby". Which is exactly why you should bother. [/quote] I didn't think you could get a tax rebate if it was your hobby. If you can then I'm going to claim a tax rebate for all the things I buy to enable me to race. All that's required is a diary showing gigs and payments and recipts of all your outgoings. I think you can even claim for mileage to and from rehearsals, MP3 downloads, and any other 'equipment', but only against offsetting payments for gigging to demonstrate that it's a hobby. You can't offset the loss you make against your day job taxes unless you're a self employed full time musician of course and then you're actively trying to make a profit.

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1499816057' post='3333885'] Be nice if the government had a look at Amazon, PayPal and Starbucks before jumping on window cleaners and pub bands. ... [/quote] Politics. But they did and in 2013 and 2016 bought in new laws that have effectively stopped them in their tracks. Amazon now pay tax on all UK delivery transactions when previously they were hiding it in Luxumberg, and Google have now stopped the 'licensing' activities. It's a shame the government aren't a bit more vocal about their success in this area.

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1499804543' post='3333786'] Green King pubs, at least this in my area, are no longer paying bands in bundles of readies, it is transferred to a nominated bank account after the gig. Which obviously means extra work for the bass player who then has to withdraw the cash and split it amongst the rest of the band. [/quote] This is where you have to start being careful. It's one thing getting paid £50 into your bank account for each gig. Once you start getting all the bands money paid directly to you and then start paying it out, it can start to look like something else. Ultimately the HMRC aren't interested in chasing bands for money. It costs them more than they'd receive.

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1499800846' post='3333745'] From the latest rumblings from the govt it seems they are genuinely looking to end these sorts of practices. If landlords are obliged to go through with it then could have an impact on how many on here go about their hobby perhaps? [/quote] They'd probably have to end paying cash for drinks somehow first.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1499532013' post='3332051'] Depends on the type of band your in Tim. In my band I only have control and opinions on my performance and stage presence. Unfortunately we're not the type of band that reviews and has open discussions on this topic. Blue [/quote] No. What I mean is, your performance needs to fit in with what the rest of the band are doing. If you're rocking it up and leaping about the stage, but everyone else is fretboard gazing and the singer is read words off a music stand, you'll look out of place. Similarly if everyone else is rocking it up and leaping about and you're fretboard gazing, then you'll also look out of place. So for you to see what you should be doing, you need to make a reference video for yourself.

You need to fit in with what the rest of the band. Don't be 'in the wrong band'. The only real way of doing that is to video the gigs from the back of the venue capturing the whole stage. You don't need up close shots, it's the overall band impression that needs to be coherent.

Each device wil have a rating written on it either in Watts or VA (they're effectively the same thing as far as you're concerned.) Add them all up. That'll give you the load.

Loft insulation can also be used as acoustic wadding, it's used as acoustic insulation in buildings. You're effectively stopping the energetic short wavelength, high frequencies. The long wavelength low frequencies require a large mass (heavy box) to damp them. .

[quote name='Yank' timestamp='1480931618' post='3188050'] When did musicians on a local level start bringing spare instruments to a gig? During the '60's, '70's and '80's guitarists and bass players that I played with only had one good instrument. When they bought a new one, they traded off the old. In the '90's, when I played guitar, I had a second for open tuning, but for bass gigs, just the one. Is this a millennial thing? [/quote] You can now pick up a pretty good bass for less than 3 gigs money. In the 80s my 'cheap' bass cost quite a lot more in real terms. .

There's probably a hundred thousand drummers out there all playing differently. Trying to stereotype them is probably not going to come to any answers. Any instrument we put through the PA is only to produce an even sound.a little bit of guitar and a little bit of bass drum to carry sound that would otherwise just get absorbed by the front row of the audience. You could always mic up the Fender Rumble 60.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1497787851' post='3320547'] Another aspect of this phenomenon is the 'other gigs'. That orchestra gig described above could be followed by a big band gig two shows and a studio session. Remembering material is a discipline that is confined to small self contained acts or lengthy bookings like tours and is not universal amongst jobbing pros.I love charts myself because I find one or two rehearsals more confusing than helpful. [/quote] Totally agree. Turn up, play the music, next...

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1497711079' post='3320201'] Open mic things are always a good laugh. All the ones around here are a mix of the genuinely talented and the utterly utterly hopeless but self obsessed. [/quote] That describes my last band perfectly.

Brass players learn differently to us. Usually they're taught formally and read music. How many bass players learned formally and read music? Most of us learn by ear. Some use tabs. It's not an excuse, it's a reason. There's no reason why they shouldn't but I don't think it's on the radar for a lot of them.

Don't worry about it. No one takes jam nights seriously.