TimR

Not even touched on off-axis, dispersion, combing...

Definitely. The GP7 that I had, had a bunch of ‘preshape’ buttons and a compression knob. I loved the sound of that amp. The problem was it was heavier than Saturn and I was losing skin off my knuckles and spindles from my banisters every gig. It started misbehaving and I found a dry joint on a resistor, but once an amp of that age starts to be unreliable it’s time for a new one. Found the Warwick PRO FET 5.1 to be a nice replacement.

If they are in properly tuned cabinets for the application. If you put them in ‘similar’ cabinets you’ll get unexpected results. You can’t for example build a cabinet for a 410 and then just replace the front baffle with one with a 15” hole in it and expect it to still work.

I’d tell the singer and the guitarist to sit down together, sort out the song and call me a couple of weeks before the gig when they’re ready to rehearse. Spending 2 hours on one song I would have lost the will to live.

I did try 115 and a 210 but they sounded very odd together. Some strange peaks in odd frequencies.

I’ve been using 2x 210s stacked vertically (all 4 speakers in a vertical line) for a few years now. Prevents combing effects and gets the speakers up near your ears so you get a lot more definition. Worth trying, you’ll probably never go back.

You’ve lost me again. You stated 410s are louder because of the surface area. That is an incorrect statement. No one disputed that 410s are louder. Anywhere. Full stop.

There you have answered your own question. Your original assertion was that it was because of surface area. I have not said 410s were not louder. I said it was simply not the case that they were louder because of surface area. Stubmandrel has provided a nice graph there for you.

Phil. I’m aware what ‘all other things remain equal means’. I don’t have a problem with that. The problem I had was the assertion that a 4x10” cab is louder than a 1x15” because of the surface area. Mainly because there are no other equal things when comparing a 410 and a 115. Absolutely everything is different. They’re different cabs. To say one is louder than the other because of the surface area is wrong. When you put two 10” cones in a cab you alter a lot more than doubling the surface area as well, so again all things don’t remain equal. Anyway, sounds like Hooky has acknowledged that now in a roundabout way. Just for completeness I have a degree in electronic and electrical engineering which included a module in acoustics. These are basic principles.

The area was the only difference I’m lost now.

Quite. No other things are equal. A 10” speaker isn’t just a smaller 15” speaker.

Nope. Ive tried to explain. I’ve given you two links. I’ve quoted specs from two cabs. Have a read of them and try and understand. Otherwise you’re simply just perpetuating one of the myths of speaker cabinets.

@hooky_lowdown the 4x10 will be able to go louder due to the design specs of the drivers and cabinet, not least as it’s a 4ohm cab, but certainly not because of the surface area of the speakers.

No. Because it’s impossible. eg the Warwick WCA 410 is 4ohms and 400W and measures 66 x 67 x 48 cm while the 115 is 8ohms and 300W and measures 53 x 57 x 50 cm. The sensitivity is completely different 410 is 107dB and the 115 97dB. Two entirely different cabs. Impossible to compare.

It’s not. The volume of the cab is different, the poring is different, the rating of the individual speakers is different, the xMax is different, the resonant frequency of the drivers is different.

As I say, that may be the case, but it’s not because of the area. Some good references here on both speaker and amplifier myths. https://barefacedbass.com/technical-information.htm

Other references are available, Wiki was just the top google result. The 10s will not have the same excursion as the 15, and will also have a different frequency response, even if they are the same manufacturer. Often the ‘louder’ is due to the cab having a different frequency response and will be affected by coupling of the 4 speakers.

Not quite true. There’s a whole host of parameters that affect volume, not just surface area. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small_parameters

80s Whotsits were more yellow and hence much more powerful. The new Wotsits are less yellow and hence less powerful which is why they now come in bigger packets containing more of them.

And that is at the root of the problem. There is no ‘proper’ way of measuring them.

The National Anthem, when the rest of the band couldn’t be persuaded that you were being serious about having to play it at the end of an RBL gig, and refused to even run through it once at practice...

You should hear my fretless playing.

How about putting the bass through an octave up pedal before this unit. Hey presto, you get a bass modeller for your bass.

As said above, loudness is frequency related. The power measurement is taken using THD Total Harmonic Distortion figure in %. So some manufactures will measure at a specific frequency with a specific amount of distortion, others at a different frequency and different distortion. Each manufacture will measure at whatever gives them the best marketing results. So someone could sell an amp that does 500w but 0.1% distortion and someone else an amp that does 500w but only 0.01% distortion. One will be louder than the other...