TimR

No gigs lined up. 33 songs to learn. No direction, no focus. All power to the Brig for learning 33 songs but turning up for 20 weeks playing 16 songs would probably tip me over the edge. I've no idea what the point of going over and over songs you have down roughly is if you haven't even got the bare bones of the other tunes down.

That example sounds very minor. I would let it go and put it on the list of things for the drummer and singer to work on st home. Play the song through twice. If the same mistake happens twice then they need to work on it. Are you playing the songs from start to end each time, or stopping and rehearsing the bits that went wrong? I played with a band who would stop if a song went wrong and start again from the top. A complete waste of time. Running through tunes week after week is counter productive and people will just lose focus. I think you need to be a lot more smart in your rehearsals and objectives.

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1492644832' post='3282025'] I happened to learn them in a month because I enjoy learning new material, I can happily go into a different room instead of watching TV and play through headphones to learn the songs, and now that I've learn't them, I can relax knowing that I only need to go through every now and then to keep up to speed with them, I didn't expect the rest of the guys to do the same, but we are now five months down the line, and they are still nowhere near knowing them well enough to gig, in fact, we probably only have about twelve to fifteen songs at most that everyone knows well enough to play live. [/quote] Ok. How often do you practice and what is the objective of each practice? How long have you agreed that it will take to be gig ready? If it's a start up learning 33 songs you need a solid workable plan and you also need to be very flexible on how the other members commit tunes to memory. As I said before, learning tunes to recordings is one thing, but it's when you play them in a band situation that they get cemented in. You have 16 songs, you can't run through them all in one night and go through new ones as well. You need to work out which tunes are 'passable' and put them to one side, play them once every couple of weeks. You need to pick the tunes that need work and play them a couple of times each week until everyone is up to speed. You need to pick two tunes to learn for next week. These are examples of the way I would approach it, I don't know the ability of the guys you are playing with, but you need to have some kind of plan. Go away and learn 33 song is not a workable plan for a start up.

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1492542004' post='3281131'] No It I obviously knew you didn`t mean sustained, but after seeing a TV programme about a women who was going to kill her neighbour because her daughter got into the cheerleaders team, and her daughter didn`t. The one who got in enjoyed it, but the other one hated it, so to force someone to learn is always problematric [/quote] You can't force people to learn. In a performing environment, once all the work has been done. Some people need a good hard push to get out onto that stage. Once they're out there you usually can't get them off it.

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1492538333' post='3281074'] Is there another meaning to bullying that I am unaware of? [/quote] Yes. Unfortunately it now appears that 'Bullying' someone is now seen as a sustained activity done to someone until they are psychologically disturbed for life. Although this is the internet, so I suspect people like to feel all pompus and believe that's what I meant by it.

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1492533346' post='3281025'] You are advocating mental/ physical abuse of people? It is never needed and is never productive, only the stupid would think otherwise. [/quote] No not really. The term bullying is overused in that respect.

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1492531798' post='3281003'] No one needs bullying, it's a stupid way to go about things and very unproductive. [/quote] Some people do.

People all respond in different ways. Some need encouraging and cajoling, Some need bullying, Some will ignore all outside criticism and inputs and just get on with it. Some take criticism hard and go away all the more determined to prove their critics wrong. There's nothing worse than receiving a Luke warm criticism. Critical should be hard, fair but positive. .

My Zoom came with a copy of Cubase LE.

Root - Fifth. With gusto.

You'll get an extra 3db for using two cabs. And an extra 6db in the bass frequencies where they couple. Assuming you're no where near the limit of your current amp, there will be no benefit of running them in parallel vs running them in series. i.e. If you're not getting amp distortion when running in series, running in parallel won't at any more power.

It'll be Peroni etc in the UK. As I said up thread Landlords are going to opt for quieter nights where people drink more expensive drinks than loud nights where people drink 3 pints of whatever the brewery default lager/bitter is. It's less work for them.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1492283017' post='3279244'] Well of course there is no point - a song will always need a certain amount of adaptation but I don't see the value of trying to establish a scientific definition of what constitutes "learning the song" - its just common sense, we all know the difference between doing enough to do the song justice vs not bothering. [/quote] Quite. And some songs take a lot more work than others. Some will work first play through. Others are like pulling teeth.

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1492076764' post='3277674'] [font=Helvetica]As the title says, am I wrong in wanting to learn the set/songs properly?[/font] [font=Helvetica]Nearly every band that I’ve been in, we decide on a setlist, or we agree to learn three or four new songs for the following week and I go away and learn them properly, but everyone else just brushes over the surface of the songs, and I end up having to tell them they are playing them wrong, which I hate doing because it obviously annoys them.[/font] ... [/quote] There is also often some passive aggressive stuff that goes on in bands. Viz a viz not learning tunes that they don't want to play. How are you going to make sure the next band isn't like all the other bands you have been in?

Scroll to the bottom of the page. Click on "Full Version". Navigate to the page you want (use pinch and zoom if needed). Scroll to the bottom and select "Mobile Version"

But theatre pit work, ensembles and orchestras are completely different. You get given a part that has been specifically written to fit in a specific arrangement. I was classically trained in this way and it will give you an ulcer if you try to replicate this in an informal band situation because modern production methods mean you just can't play a part as it is on the record and expect the band to work. Sure it worked in the 60s when all guitar bands had the same line up but it doesn't now. Everyone has to be flexible. This means learn the chords and the form and your line. But you'd better be prepared to move about a bit and in some cases a lot.

If you're playing as a dep there's a lot more eye contact, head nods and other communication going on. I don't know about session playing but I'd guess there would be an MD and a specific arrangement for the whole band to learn.

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1492168672' post='3278420'] Sorry, but I completely disagree. This may be the case in a first band where the individuals have never played live against each other, but this is a band that gigs and must have some degree of experience. I really don't know what is difficult about learning the usual pub fare at home verbatim and turning up at rehearsal and playing them through 2/3 times to polish them. I do not rehearse to learn. I learn at home. That's where the hard work is done. [/quote] The more experience you have of playing together the less you need to rehearse to learn those micro bits. 2/3 times for some bands. For other bands/songs you may not need any rehearsals and you can gig having learned the parts at home. For other bands and songs that are going to need different arrangements to cover missing instruments or sections of songs that are not straightforward need several rehearsals to get right. It's not a black and white situation. If people who normally play well together are getting some parts of some songs wrong it won't usually be because they haven't learned their parts properly.

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1492164512' post='3278368'] ... [/quote] As I said earlier, most musicians will be communicating and listening on a micro level and not nessacarily committing everything to memory. So what's happening when you're performing is everyone is picking up on small queues. Sounds to me that the band are actually underrehearsed on the parts of tunes where problems are occurring. No amount of practicing at home will fix this. I've learned tunes note for note and when it comes to a band situation; maybe the bass line has to fit into a drum fill with a certain vocal pattern and if that fill or pattern isn't as per the original record, it throws everyone, or if the drummer plays the verse end fill in the middle of the chorus because he thinks it fits that can throw the vocals. These are all micro differences in the tune that queue everyone. This is why you rehearse. To learn these little bits, to add them in or decide you don't need them. It's not a case of everyone justbleadn the tune at home and it'll slot together. I still think you need to make a careful note of which bits go wrong and practice those songs together. That's what we do.

So how do you play a Beatles track if you don't have a piano or a second guitarist or a brass and string section?

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1492159321' post='3278314'] depends how you want the songs to come across to your audience perfect note for note facsimile copies with all the correct tonal characteristics and effects all the way down to 'loose' covers while the former is often seen by some as a bit OCD and OTT (usually out of some primary concern of putting effort into it but not wasting too much time because its 'our interpretation innit') , the latter frequently comes across as lazy and unmotivated (unless of course they are very radical reworkings that have clearly had some thought and effort put into them) hope this helps [/quote] It's the internet isn't it. Can only be one or the other. You need to re-arrange all songs to fit the instrumentation of the band. Unless you have a singer doing impressions. Which seems an odd thing to do. Where does it end. Different wigs and glasses for each song?

When the email you receive confirming the gig includes the line: "The vicar would like to invite you to join him for a cup of tea during the interval." I had to read it several times. .

That's a bit deep. I just turn up and play music.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1492089490' post='3277860'] Good ideas, but you seem to take it as read that TheBrig is the band's MD and call the shots at rehearsals. Just saying ... [/quote] We have a band leader who makes major descisions but surely it's up to individuals to flag anything they're not comfortable with and want to work on in practices? Otherwise how does the MD know what the band needs to work on?

I'd rehearse the set list over a couple of practices and record them. Then go home and identify any dodgy ones and create a songs to revisit list. (Or just put a cross on a list when you play a song that needs work as you play them) Then spend a few weeks just going over those ones. Might give everyone a bit of focus and renew the direction.