TimR

Are the songs tight at gigs? If there's no reason to practice then practicing for the sake of practicing will lead to this kind of thing. No one really concentrates as they know the songs. If the songs aren't right at gigs then you only need to call a practice to work on the songs that are crashing and dissect them and fix where they are failing. I'm a bit confused, is the band a start up or has it been gigging for years? .

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1492081406' post='3277748'] There is huge value in learning songs note for note for any musician. Even if the band decides that a particular song won't work after you've all learnt it, you will still have gained something as a musician by going through that learning process and even by recognising that it won't work for your band. Imagine if every band member put the work in and learnt and practised songs until they knew them inside out. Then they came together and played them. Why does that seem like a fantasy?! [/quote] Because it's a waste of time as unless your instrumentation is exactly as per the original line up and you have some way of adding all those overdubs and bits added in production the song just won't work. If you want to learn a bass line as an exercise or so that you can play along to a track at home then I agree. If you're trying to get 30 songs together to start a band, then it's going to be a very tortuous experience. Anyway, it seems the OP isn't learning songs note for note, it's the errors where people don't appear to have fully nailed the form, that are frustrating him.

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1492079147' post='3277715'] We've all agreed to use the originals as a guide to the structures of the song, each individual part doesn't necessarily have to be note for note, but sometimes someone goes into the chorus where they shouldn't, or the singer comes in over the second part of the solo, or the drummer finishes the song far too early and makes you look daft because you've just gone into the next note. Surely you have to have some sort of structured way of workig if you are going to put on a tight and professional show. [/quote] That's slightly different to the impression you have in your OP. People make mistakes, when you learn a song to a recording you have a lot of imperceptible guides to pick up on that are always there. The singer on the recording may have some inflection in the vocal or the drummer might play a certain fill in a slightly different way. When you practice as a band, those indications are not here. It always takes a few run throughs to learn what bits are missing or added in. That's the nature of the beast. Relax a bit more. Mistakes are normal. If they're blaming you for derailing a song, or you're blaming someone else for derailing a song; that s a really bad place to be in a band situation. Laugh it off. Pick it up from where you went wrong. If the same mistakes happen time after time, then listen to the original and see why you're messing up. It's unusual to be just because someone has made a mistake.

I suspect it may be you then if it 'happens in nearly every band' you're in. The problem with learning songs 'exactly as per the original' is that music just doesn't work that way. Many original artists don't even play the songs as per the original recording when they play live. I suspect what most of your fellow musicians (and certainly what we do) are learning the form and key riffs and parts on their own and then seeing what has to be adjusted within the arrangement to make the song work as close to the original as you find acceptable. If you start being over critical on individual parts, even if you slavishly learn your part note for note from the record, it just won't work. The other problem with learning songs note for note is the amount of time and dedication needed to do that when you turn up to the next rehearsal and find the song doesn't fit the band, you've wasted a lot of time and the band members will then get bogged down, and waste even more time, forcing it to work because they don't want to see all that wasted time lost. Learn the structure and key parts, relax and have fun. Just don't cut out mid sections because 'they're too hard'

[quote name='interpol52' timestamp='1492016099' post='3277245'] Scott Devine got me playing bass again after losing my enthusiasm for a good number of years. I preferred the old videos where he got straight to the point. I've no interest in seeing him in an apartment in New York or walking around. [/quote] The videos are a lot more polished now and I find them easy to watch. In one of his videos he talks about talent and shows some of his original video clips. Which are basically a web cam in his bedroom. Really, there are thousands of bedroom cam players and if you're going to get your video noticed above them you have to step out of the bedroom and engage your audience. We consume with our eyes and the presentation of the video is key. There's a balancw to be struck somewhere between a dodgy web cam bedroom player uming and ahing through a video, and someone talking a full camera unit to their Yoga session.

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1491979594' post='3276835'] I sometimes wonder at how our language and the way we use it has been modified by I.T. [/quote] You wouldn't believe how shocked you will be when you find out the secret.

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1491919895' post='3276480'] ... Steve - it'll be great fun", the band tells me. Depends on your idea of fun, I suppose. All I can do is tell them what I'm practising and then turn up at the recording studio and and play that. I'm not going to stress any more about this. [/quote] Yes. They're your new mates. They're trying to be supportive. Doesn't sound to me like they want to put you under unnecessary pressure. Relax, it will be fun. They will like whatever you do. I'm constantly amazed at the total rubbish I play that the rest of my band think is totally awesome. Enjoy the process.

[quote name='TKenrick' timestamp='1491933651' post='3276630'] It seems that I have a different view of what constitutes clickbait in this context - as I see it, videos with titles like 'The ONE scale that you need to know' or '5 EPIC practice hacks' are all about enticing as many views as possible by using a carefully selected style of language to appeal to the broadest audience possible. To me, at least, that seems like clickbait. Please note that none of my comments are intended to pass judgement on the [b]content [/b]of that video or any other - Scott has done an [i]incredible[/i] amount for the bass community both in terms of the academy and all the free content that he produces. Ditto for Janek. [/quote] Maybe. It depends what the content of "The ONE scale that you need to know." is. If it's just a C major scale, then there's hundreds of videos on C major scales, everyone knows what a major scale is, it doesn't add anything to your knowledge and is simply recycling well known information in a different package designed to draw people into whatever you are selling. Usually within 10 seconds you realise it's a waste of time watching any further and start looking at something else that grabs your attention. Scott's videos are really good. I subscribe to his channel and they're always interesting and hold my attention. I think they're fully aware that if you start producing full fledged clickbait you'll lose subscribers very quickly. There's a fine balance.

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Just to clarify on the guide track; IME The guide track will be everyone playing together and then relevant tracks dropped out during the re-recording of each part. Sometimes (usually) the original drum track is used. Assuming there is no bass bleed into the drum mikes this will give a more authentic feel to the recording. If the bass is then good on that first take there may only be a requirement to drop in parts.

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1491839061' post='3275772'] in my humble experience most established covers bands do not win gigs on the strength of their website or demo recordings alone 99.999% of your gig bookings will come from people who have been to see you live in the flesh and were impressed enough to shake their booty or tap their foot accordingly ... [/quote] Whilst I agree with this 100%, if the band are looking for high end gigs where they're booked by committee, one member of the committe will say they have seen or know a really good band but they'll often need a way to convince the rest of the committee.

You'll put down a guide track first that will be to a click track. Then the drumer will play along to that, so all willl be good. You'll have a vocal track to guide you. There will be no problem with reading off a pad as there's no audience. If you mess up, you can just re-record the part you messed up. Relax.

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1491739755' post='3275086'] Both, but I would say mostly freeholds. Perhaps LLs of these places have more of a vision of exactly what they want, whereas Managers for a chain don't really care if they like the band or not. [/quote] Yes. They're also sometimes trying to create a brand. People like to know what they're getting and a classic rock pub, originals club or a jazz club will get a different audience. I'm not sure how successful pubs that put on different styles of music each week are. People often tend to be pretty fixed in their ideas. I can't see many checking to see what band is on before heading out to their local.

[quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1491683507' post='3274825'] Are these freeholds or managed pubs? Managers working for a chain draw a salary. It makes no difference to them if they are making steady business or if they are packing the place out... [/quote] It makes quite a bit of difference. If they make a lot of money, their rent increases. It's a weird business model.

Yes. My local tried an open mic night midweek. The pub is 100m from my house. I knew nothing about it until I just happened to walk in one night and see the PA. He knows who I am and didn't even ask if I'd ask my friends to come down.

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[quote name='blue' timestamp='1491671869' post='3274710'] Again, must be cultural. Over here the LLs I know, their personal taste is a genre known as "Money". Blue [/quote] Yes. In the UK people put a lot of stock in doing things they like over making money. We have a long history of a socialist society compared to the US. We don't need money as much as you guys do. A lot of the things we need are provided by the state from the taxes of rich people. It's a fairly unique society. You should visit.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1491671240' post='3274705'] That's complicated. Over here they generally don't book rock bands in restaurants where people are sitting down eating. The landlords don't listen to anything except the sound of the cash register opening and closing. Blue [/quote] No. We have clubs with background music quite a lot. I went to a wine bar last week they had a jazz band. A rock band would not have worked. People were there to socialise. It's a cultural thing.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1491653498' post='3274584'] Interesting how some of these managers and owners would rather not answers calls, voice mail messages or text instead of answering and just telling you "No". Blue [/quote] I've found a lot of managers are too busy doing whatever they do to be replying to emails explaining why they don't want you. They may be getting masses of enquiries and you're just another one cluttering up their inbox. We also had a landlord who I'd emailed lots of times and had no reply. I popped in, he said he'd been meaning to contact me but had lost my details. Gave me his card and asked me to email him. By the time I'd got home he had emailed me asking for some dates. Who knows how their heads work?

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1491643681' post='3274484'] Yep, place we've played on 8-10 times over the last 3 or 4 years, new people running it and they have told me the place isn't suitable for live music. The previous managers had live music at least once a week for years. Shame, it was a good gig, good crowd used to be in there. I expect they've moved somewhere else now. [/quote] Yes. Same with us. The landlord gave us two two stories. 1) "I didn't know how to contact you." - "Ah Ok, There's a website called Lemonrock, all your future gigs are still up on it, I'll give you the details", "Oh yes, I know about that.", "?". 2) "Thanks for playing, it's not what the regulars like though." - despite the 'regulars' being up and dancing most of the night? I think some landlords have an image of what their pub should be and if your style of music doesn't fit with their 'brand' then you're on to a loser regardless of how many people you draw. That's their choice and it may be that a pub full of people leaping about and drinking beer is more hassle, hard work and less money than people sitting quietly eating food and drink red wine by the bottle while listening to smooth jazz. Which is what the landlord wants to listen to anyway.

I'm sure they have paid someone to do some SEO on their videos. I wouldn't blame them for everything. There's a few sites I used that were very good but are now so full of junk articles designed to grab people's attention while recycling old content, or even having so little content, that they're unusable now. This has got so prevalent and is making the web so cluttered that even Google have changed their algorithm so that sites working like that are now being penalised in search results.

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1491255691' post='3271672'] The Guild of Stranglers. [/quote] Very close to their original name. The Guildford Stranglers.

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1491250831' post='3271630'] His first suggestion was "Tank" He said there is nothing wishy washy about that name .......But there is a band with that name I think . His second was "The Wranglers" & "No More Zeroes" [/quote] Hmmmm. Personally I think The Gosport Stranglers has a ring to it.

Where do all the locked threads go? I've noticed that they start to bunch together as they can't be replied to. As more of the threads between them get replies and move back up to the top the locked threads end up stuck together forever. Is there a pile of them at the bottom of the canal? .

Do they do key cutting?