risingson

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1331589658' post='1575584'] I guess I just like music, although obviously not all artists. Punk, pop, jazz, metal etc, don't care really, it's ultimately not relevant. It's all just music to me. [/quote] Me too. People just seem to love quantifying it all in some respect, god knows why. Maybe if some people on this site opened their minds a bit they might start enjoying music in the way that most other non-musicians do. 'Real' musicians have a knack of making everything to disgustingly clinical.

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1331584652' post='1575437'] Also, why do you automatically assume that because someone says "so-and-so influenced a lot of people" that the person making the statement is automatically a fanboy? [/quote] This part baffled me too, hence the clarification on my behalf to save my words being taken hugely out of context.

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1331579158' post='1575262'] You know you won't; you'll be back to argue your corner That's the thing with folk who claim their idol "influences" folk. It's one of my pet irks is misplaced claims of "influence"; it usually ends up that someone who's admitted to liking a song or an album by someone is claimed to have [i]been influenced[/i] by them. I rarely believe it until I hear that influencee say so themself. [/quote] You're right! Haha it's like an itch that you can't quite scratch, you persevere but you never get anywhere Flea isn't my 'idol'. He used to be when I was 14 or 15. He was just an example, Doddy was the one who initially brought him up so I thought I might run with the comparison briefly. I don't do idols really, although if I ever came across Pino Palladino I'd probably jump on him and give him a big hug for being a top lad.

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1331576254' post='1575175'] Glad it was only quite honest as opposed to actually honest. [/quote] In clearer terms then, Flea has obviously influenced countless bass players, both young and old, both experienced and beginner. You'd be wrong to try and deny it, even if the idea does offend one or two people's musical sensibilities. And with that, I shall bow out

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1331574182' post='1575124'] Indeed. Should we bail now or can we still land her safely??? [/quote] Oh I don't know 4000 these threads have a habit of blowing themselves up, I'll hit the ejector seat when my soapbox breaks!!

[quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1331573320' post='1575106'] you've taken out of context what i'm saying, as i did you. I'm saying that those who don't know what those such as anthony jackson are doing in a theoretical format, are less likely to realise how clever he is. How can they if they haven't been taught it first? You can't recognise a major scale unless you've been shown what a major scale looks or sounds like.... [/quote] You shouldn't need to be of a certain level of musicianship to be able to enjoy music. After all, that's what music is about isn't it? It's not maths and equations, it's about enjoying yourself, whether you be the listener or the performer. Lets use your logic and apply it to a jazz fan who doesn't play an instrument. Are you saying that this person is ill-equipped to judge the difference between Kenny G and Charlie Parker just because this person has no theoretical experience? And besides, who cares which one you prefer? I mean really?

[quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1331572318' post='1575078'] ah think i get you now. Your basically saying they deserve credit for influencing others? If thats right then i agree. [b]However, it's when you get people who aren't as educated who claim the likes of flea or McCartney[/b] are in the top 50 or w/e bass players of all time. When clearly they are not. That is when they become over-rated. For me anyway. Again i'm not arguing their impact or influence on music, but great bass players they are not. [/quote] I give up the bold part speaks volumes unfortunately about the snobbery that musicians can sometimes display. Utter madness.

[quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1331568598' post='1574970'] I don't really care about much else of this thread but this stuck out. Yes Anthony Jackson and Richard Bona deserve more credit because they're technically very good. They're very good because they've practised a lot more than most individuals. I think that deserves recognition when it pays off, which it clearly does with both of them. [/quote] But you misunderstand my point entirely. You'll find that both aforementioned bass players already get enough credit. As far as I'm concerned, Anthony Jackson is probably the best technician of the bass guitar that has ever lived and I'm get to hear anyone that lives up to his level of 'technical prowess' for lack of a better term. Every bass player that knows the circles in which Anthony Jackson has performed will be aware of this, as is the same of Richard Bona. But using Flea as an example again, has he not worked hard to get where he wants to be today? He's been part of a band that has widely influenced other bands and has sold millions of albums worldwide, and if we're quite honest has influenced a million other bass players too. Which one deserves more credit? Who cares. They both have their place in music as it exists today. Comparing them is a totally fruitless endevour.

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1331562520' post='1574813'] But the thread is about 'over rated bassists' not do you like the band/song. Possibly my favourite band is Primus,but I still think that,in a way,Claypool is over rated because he gets lauded as a bass playing genius when there are big aspects of his playing that are very sloppy. Marcus Miller is probably my favourite bass player,but I don't think that his last couple of studio solo albums have been particularly great. I think Flea gets lauded waaay to much,but it doesn't stop me digging a bunch of the Chili's albums. There is a big difference between liking/disliking a song/band/album and saying that the players are over/under rated. Just because I like a band doesn't mean I rate the players highly and vice versa. [/quote] It's obviously something we won't agree on I'm afraid Doddy! I find the concept of critiquing your favourite bands or songs based on technique utterly strange. Can't you enjoy music for what it is as opposed to what any one person is doing wrong? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 'Overrated' - what does it even mean? That more people like talking about Flea than Anthony Jackson or Richard Bona and that this is for some reason wrong? Umm... why? Do Anthony Jackson and Richard Bona deserve more credit because they're the real technicians or the instrument? It's all very silly.

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1331560876' post='1574767'] So,you've never looked at a copy of Bass Player (for example) and though "Bloody Hell..not him(again)! He sucks!"? There are bands/albums that I really like where I would never call the individual players amazing (or even good in some cases)by any stretch,and vice versa. There is nothing wrong with saying "I like......." or "I think....... gets too much attention" or whatever. Everyone does it. [/quote] I don't read any music publications currently, but no, I don't do that. And the reason is that variety in music interests me much more than only listening to one style of music, whether I enjoy it straight away or not. The other reason is that I've learnt better than to equate seemingly poor performances with bad music. I'll never like the bass part that John Lennon played on 'The Long and Winding Road' for example but will it stop me thinking that it's one of the best records of all time? Probably not.

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1331559346' post='1574727'] So..that says to me that the problem with these threads is that people don't like others being negative towards their favourite players/band. [/quote] Trust me, it's not. Hypothetically, if you were to put forward Andy Rourke from The Smiths into all of this, it's not going to stop me from enjoying The Smiths' music. I'm more aware of music as the sum of the parts as opposed to any one person being under or overrated. What I'd prefer to highlight is the futility of arguing the toss either way.

[quote name='mep' timestamp='1331558593' post='1574699'] How long before someone mentions Adam Clayton again? [/quote] Adam Clayton is overrated. There, I saved one or two people a lot of time [quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1331558638' post='1574701'] I know it's all subjective...but I find it interesting that when there is an 'under rated' player thread, everyone is quite happy to to say about players they like who they don't think get enough coverage,yet when an 'over rated' thread starts its wrong because it's 'subjective'. Subjectivity is whole point of both threads. As far as I'm concerned,there is no difference in me saying that players like Robert Mercurio of Galactic or Raphael Saadiq of Tony,Toni,Tone are 'under rated' and saying that players like John Entwistle or Flea are 'over rated'. Unless,of course,the real reason is that people don't like to hear others being negative towards their favourite players/bands? [/quote] Subjectivity is what is seen as part of a reasoned debate, but I've never seen a 'who's the most overrated bass player' thread end with anyone being even close to subjective.

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1331556080' post='1574613'] True. However,I will make an exception for John Entwistle...mainly because of that 'Bassist of the Millenium' thing that keeps getting touted. I don't even think he's the best bass player to play with The Who [/quote] This is unfortunately already for me where the problems start with topics like this. I'm no big Entwistle fan, but I think some of his bass lines are fantastic, and it's very easy to see why he's so popular. Your issue should probably be more with the people who need 'top 10 bass players of all time' style lists in order to qualify their otherwise completely subjective opinions. As far as the Who were concerned (and probably 99% of their fans), Entwistle was the dogs, and that's what matters. Don't make me link to the Alex James fiasco from a few weeks back!

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1331551137' post='1574470'] When I was learning the bass, a mate played me the Beatles song, Rain, I had never heard the bass played so high up the neck prior to that, I loved it! [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ppKhsgYMxI&feature=fvwrel[/media] [/quote] Brilliant! I love it. McCartney and George Martin actually did start to spend a lot of time looking at how the bass got recorded after it became apparent that a lot of their sound rested on what was happening with Paul's incredibly melodic approach to playing. Superb stuff.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1331544624' post='1574305'] Smiths - Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now, This Charming Man. Cure - Love Cats, Close To Me, Lovesong, etc.. Madness - House Of Fun, In The City, Deceives The Eye, etc. [/quote] I did mean to include some Andy Rourke as well. Actually one of my favourite songs of all time, Johnny's guitar chimes and the bass is just great http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGnjrTkv1gs

[quote]over rated bassists ?[/quote] File under 'overrated topics'. I don't think there's any such thing, only music I like and music I don't.

Better than arguing over it, can it just be accepted by everyone that the bass/kick thing is entirely dependent on the style of music that you play. Not referring to any one person in particular but its hardly helpful to be barraging the OP with what is a fair bit of misinformation and assumptions.

Pretty much the past 5 posts have all been Pino bass parts. I love it

Don Henley - New York Minute. Cheesy, cheesy as anything, massive guilty pleasure but one of the best fretless bass parts on record. Pino Palladino at his finest. I don't tell anyone that I listen to it though

Love Celinders and Mike Lull stuff, can't really get on board with either in terms of looks but I bet they sound bloody brilliant.

I saw it when it first came out and I still struggle with a.) the price and b.) to see what advantages it can offer my band over our current P.A and mixer (none it would seem). Respect to them for offering something new but I can't help but feel that it all looks a bit sh*te... and I too am not a huge Line 6 fan either.

The Beatles, no argument whatsoever really.

I've skim-read a lot of what has been written by other people, I didn't read it all as there was a lot of it so I apologise if I'm repeating a few things! To the OP. If you lack confidence in yourself, you'd be wise to get yourself into a band. When I started playing, it was all about having fun for me, and playing in a band is a lot of fun. It's a big confidence booster too. You'll soon find that music is all about communication with other people through what you play. Even if its the simplest of bass lines, there is something immensely satisfying in knowing that you're propping up the rest of your band with your rock solid and very simplistic bass part. I can't stress enough how enjoyable the whole experience of being in a band is, and if you're passionate about music it's definitely one way to snap you into shape as a bass player. The other big deal is to get inspired by someone. For me, there was a local bass player that used to make my jaw drop when I watched him play some stuff that at the time was seemingly impossible. You'll always feel pressured and unhappy if you measure your skill against seasoned bass players, but when you watch your bassist, go and grab your bass and pay a lot of attention to what makes that bass player so great to watch. Then try and extract it and take influence from him/her. Lessons with great teachers can inspire you too. We all have our ups and downs as musicians but as long as you're not putting undue pressure on yourself to be living up to other people's expectations, then music should be about having fun first and foremost. Everyone's very capable of this part of playing the bass guitar, regardless of experience.

Get a Stingray if you're a Flea fan, you'll absolutely love it.

I see this as a similar kind of question to 'I'm a beginner bass player, should I be playing short scale basses?'. I don't see the point of limiting yourself before you've even started, and I'd strongly recommend trying every kind of 5 string you can before settling on what string spacing you want before you've even tried anything out. You never know what you're going to like and what you're not, so I'd go with BRX's advice and go and try some stuff.