risingson

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1371150' date='Sep 12 2011, 09:54 PM']I would say that being a talented and skilled composer/writer is far more important. If you don't have any good music to play then it doesn't matter how fantastic your gear or technique is.[/quote] I include composition under the same banner when talking about musicianship.

[quote name='derrenleepoole' post='1370913' date='Sep 12 2011, 07:07 PM']The same arguements can be applied to a car purchase. My car is horrible. But, it does everything it needs to and more. So why bother upgrading? We all know the answer to that one. Because we can.[/quote] Absolutely man, in fact I made the same comparison in my first post. I do understand the desire to upgrade, and of course buying a new instrument is a shedload of fun too. [quote name='dc2009' post='1370908' date='Sep 12 2011, 07:04 PM']She was a successful writer for many years before writing for herself. In my book, that makes her musically talented. If the Motown guys were 'talented' then they might have written songs that didn't all sound like each other, and I might actually like some of it. IMO they were boring musicians and producers and you'd have to pay me to listen to said dross. As for standing the test of time, I can honestly say you're the first person I've encountered under 30 years of age who is a Motown fan, the lions share of Motown listeners are people who grew up with it. I'd argue it really hasn't stood the test of time, because so few young people these days choose to listen to it. As for saying preferences aside, it sounds brilliant, that really isn't preferences aside, as I think it sounds terrible. I can think of several people, in contrast, who put lady gaga on their playlist, and no Motown, and IMO, she sounds a lot better. As for saying a million and one people could do what she does, so could all of the Motown writers be classed as the same. I'm sure plenty of people were skilled enough musicians, and would rather have been pro musos than factory workers or unemployed. To draw it all together, those guys were using the best they had available to them, just as miss gaga does now. They were also both enormously popular in their own right, not caring too much because in the end, it's all going to sound very similar on that LP through that gramophone. I don't see anything wrong with using the best equipment available to you, or with writing music that you know will sell fantastically well, and be very popular.[/quote] With the greatest of respect then, you can't have spoken to many people under the age of 30. I regularly play cover gigs at bars catering almost exclusively for those under 30 where we play out the likes of Marvin Gaye, The Four Tops, The Temptations, The Supremes, Smokey Robinson etc. etc. and response is always the same: favourable. People singing along word for word, people specifically coming and asking me for more Motown. The popularity has undeniably been carried down to my age group, I can account for it on multiple fronts. And of course the sound has stood the test of time, you only need to listen to Adele or Cee Lo Green's latest release to see how far reaching Motown's influence has been. 50 years on! That's insane longevity. Unparalleled in many respects. There's nothing notable about Lady Gaga in a musical sense. She relies on her quirkiness as the thing that identifies her (not a criticism, in fact a great way of marketing), but it doesn't make you musically talented or unique. You listen to Dusty Springfield or Aretha Franklin sing and you know who you're listening to in the first few bars. Total unbridled talent, whether it's your thing or not. I don't expect we're going to come to any logical conclusions arguing on this subject, so apologies to stray from the OT.

[quote name='dc2009' post='1370805' date='Sep 12 2011, 05:48 PM']motown's soul and humanity is dubious, I swear half the time those terms are use to describe that music it's due to nostalgia and listener's preference, not any factual basis Whilst a lot of modern pop is poor musically, Lady Gaga's stuff is some of the best. Some really well written songs (from a musical standpoint), she's actually a big iron maiden fan etc If a modern band doesn't sound good production wise, I'd be the first to say why not? The audio quality should augment the listener's experience, not hinder it (IMO of course). What do I think sounds good production wise? I like stadium arcadium and for the more extreme stuff, Gorod's Process of a New Decline. These records have had lots of care and money spent on the instruments, recording equipment and production to final sound, something jamerson clearly didn't care for and something (again IMO ofc) I think his music suffers for in comparison to the two I just mentioned.[/quote] I don't think we're going to agree here dc! Lady Gaga is talented in as much as she has managed to amass a small fortune through being musically talentless (she has other talents). I don't think she can sing, I think she's a terribly mediocre writer and I think people are numb to this because there's been far too long a time passed since the last truly exceptional female singer and writer. Her music's production lack depth, and the majority of her output is bereft of substance and quality. And on the Motown front, well of course everything is personal preference, including a person's choice to listen to Lady Gaga. But if you were to tell me that Lady Gaga had the same level of skills that were displayed by the Motown songwriting and arranging team (HDH), producers and performers (both in-house and vocal), then the argument kind of starts to fall apart. Continuing to use the Motown as an example, the production team at Hitsville did their level best to put something together that has ended up really standing the test of time (50 years and counting), in spite of their technological disadvantage in direct comparison to what even the most basic studios run today. All preference aside, it sounds brilliant. Unique too. There's nothing unique about Lady Gaga, a million and one people could do what she does, providing they had the money behind them, leading me to think the comparison between the two pretty redundant.

[quote name='derrenleepoole' post='1370762' date='Sep 12 2011, 05:06 PM']I'm now in a position where I'm seriously thinking about making an investment in a bass that takes me up to the next level. [b]Even though I'm happy with what I currently have[/b], the decision to do this is three fold: because I want too, and because I've earned it, because I'll appreciate it. I'm glad that it's taken me this long to get here though, as the journey would of been far more expensive if it hadn't [/quote] You have every reason to invest in whatever bass you want, but I don't see the point if you're happy with what you've got. What I've learned in the 10 years playing is that the quest for gear is pretty futile, especially if you're happy with what you've got, regardless of price. This 'step' system of moving up a price-level as you progress as a player is misleading as it would suggest that the level of your progression should somehow dictate what instrument you play. The reality is that it doesn't matter, all manner of players play all kinds of gear.

Gear is nice, but ultimately replaceable. Being a talented, skilled musician is indispensable. It's a no brainer as to which one is more important. I understand why gear is appealing though, in the same way that cars are appealing to me even though I'm never going to be a racing driver. It's not up to anyone else to decide what kind of bass or amp you buy, just as long as the person isn't duping themselves into believing that new gear can somehow supplement talent then I don't see a real problem. There are plenty of people out there who don't use sites like these because they're not interested in talking about gear but are great players who sound great too. [quote name='dc2009' post='1370556' date='Sep 12 2011, 03:27 PM']IMO that was relevant when the bass track you laid down was recorded through a tin can, copied onto a terrible music format and played through a crap hi-fi. These days, where everyone has access to some seriously high quality audio, and many like myself invest hundreds of pounds in precision engineered devices to listen to it through, if the bassist was playing on a rusty stringed piece of crap through a cardboard box amp, with all of the 'feel' in the world, it'd sound like crap and you'd laugh at the record, let alone ever buy it. Therefore I think that statement is completely irrelevant to today's world.[/quote] It depends what you're aiming for though. Not everyone wants to hear cleanliness and evidential proof of hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of hardware/software behind a track. Maybe that's why Jamerson's comments are more important than ever in fact, I feel very strongly that popular music has lost its way in this respect. Motown was a production line, but it was a production line with soul and humanity behind it, but the likes of Lady Gaga (IMO I should stress) have bastardised this legacy.

[quote name='Doctor J' post='1369063' date='Sep 11 2011, 07:27 AM']That was very interesting. One in the eye for vintage Fender lovers [/quote] She was doing so well until 9:39.

He's my favourite bass player, just totally awe inspiring. Him and Steve Jordan are a force to be reckoned with when they play together.

Any pictures? Fender did do some interesting sparkly finishes but I can't help feeling this may have been in the later period of the 70's. The brass bridge sounds like a retrofit too, but pics will help clarify the situation. It sounds in principle like a lovely bass.

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1368691' date='Sep 10 2011, 04:30 PM']Fan numbers and followers from social media sites mean almost nothing.[/quote] This simply isn't true. Many promoters that we have dealt with have actively looked at our fan base size and increasingly, I know a lot of management do too. It has become a means for us to keep people abreast of news about our gigs. It's not necessarily a medal of honour having over 1000 fans or whatever, but it helps. [quote]I'd have to respectfully disagree with that bit. FB is a social media site, and there's nothing particularly social about constantly talking about yourself. Lest we forget, forums are also social media sites and I wouldn't expect much of a response by posting the sort of topics you're suggesting. What would get a better response are 'What did you have forg dinner'/ 'Who's your favourite Beatle' type posts. They absolutely beg a response. The point is - it's not all about you, it's about them.[/quote] You need to connect with fans on any level possible, if that means that you're engaging them with a bit of banter then this can go a mighty long way. I was definitely being mildly flippant about the Beatles/Widdecombe convo but people want to see that you're not just leaving your social networking dormant or strictly business. The majority of posting should concern band matters and I would agree that too much joviality can certainly appear to come across as obnoxious but once you have a fanbase then there definitely isn't wrong with posts that prompt reactions back from people, after all if it appears as though you don't take yourselves too seriously and are happy to connect with fans then you're much more likely to see a marked increase of people who want to come and see you, be involved with you and follow you. This can't be underestimated.

We use Facebook and Twitter, and we keep our Myspace dormant with a few tunes on it as well. Myspace is a dead weight right now. I won't deny that there will be people who search you out on Myspace to have a listen to your music but the service is slow and really inefficient. Many bands are totally sidestepping it now, and it's dying a death. Aside from that, you need to be constantly on the ball when you start to rack up your friends and followers on Facebook and Twitter. Keep the interest there by making videos and posting stuff of interest and substance, peppered with a few nondescript remarks about what you had for dinner, who your favourite Beatle was, the time you met Ann Widdecombe etc. It's all about developing feedback and generating buzz. Make sure to always mention that you're available on Facebook and Twitter at gigs as well. Good luck with it!

She is still not given nearly enough credit as a bass player as far as I'm concerned, she's an astounding bassist and IMO much more interesting to listen to than Victor W or Steve Bailey. If only it wasn't for that nonsense she said about Jamerson I'd have total respect for her.

Smallest was about 6, but it was a bloody good laugh! The biggest was just under 10,000 I believe although I couldn't be certain. I actually had more fun at the gig with only 6 people there. My second biggest gig is coming up next month, but it could turn out to be my biggest yet depending on how things go.

Hi there! I'm in Sweden quite regularly, including Stockholm, it's one of my favourite cities. Welcome on board

I'm much more likely to go in to a shop and try a bass out and walk out empty handed. If I'm sufficiently impressed with the instrument, the staff and the way I'd been treated the likelihood is that I'll go back and buy from them in future if their stock is my kind of thing.

[quote name='gjones' post='1364855' date='Sep 7 2011, 01:23 AM']I hate to be a killjoy but an average classical guitarist could do that on a guitar easy peasy. The guy's just making it more difficult for himself by playing it on a 4 string bass. What next? Is he going to try playing it on a unicycle while tightrope walking over the Niagra Falls. Impressive but ultimately pointless.[/quote] For once I don't agree with this sentiment. For starters, he's written a fairly impressive song, regardless what you or I might think of it. I don't think it's fair to say that a classical guitar player would trounce his efforts because even if they replicated what he was doing with ease, he was the one who wrote the piece of music, ergo displaying a talent that transcends a simple technical exercise on a bass guitar. Furthermore I would say that if his comfort zone is the bass, then he should probably write music on it. It stands to reason really. Whilst it might seem a pointless endeavour for some, I think his music suits his instrument. I personally don't usually enjoy solo bass guitar and am hugely conservative when I think about the role of bass in music. However, I don't like to deny talent when I see it for the sake of trying to keep my views on bass sacred, and I happen to think this guy has talent. Check this vid out (again, not usually my thing, but very impressive and harmonically interesting):

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1365139' date='Sep 7 2011, 12:12 PM']Then you never read any of my old posts, nor spoke to BC customers who were happy ;-) Every shop ive used has had good and bad staff. My point was that if it was someone at the BC people would say thats why i avoid it, yet because its someone we all know and respect its excusable. Ive used the Gallery many times so im well aware of their CS etc, i was really just commenting on some of the early posts and comparing them to the same situation and responses in the BC thread, which seems to be full of people going in to the shop just to have a moan on here about the exact thing the OP posted about. Sorry, im having a rough tiring week, ignore me.[/quote] I think the main point to take away is that Alex has now personally come on this site and apologised to the OP and what's more has stipulated that he'll make sure it doesn't happen again. You've got to say that's pretty decent. It's less about blowing smoke up their arses and more to do with the admission that nobodies perfect, we all make mistakes and have bad days etc. My experience suggests that these incidents are few and far between.

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1365117' date='Sep 7 2011, 11:53 AM']Its funny how OP had a bad experience at the Gallery and a lot of people are defending or making excuses for it, yet if the OP had said Bass Cellar everyone would be slagging the sales guy off. Sorry, no offence to anyone (nor the Gallery and staff, alex has always seemed a bit quiet but very helpful), its just something that struck me after reading just the first page.[/quote] But the Bass Cellar have hardly earned the right to be defended, after all I have never heard a good report from anyone who's been there personally. The guys at the Gallery (after some initial hesitancy) were more than happy to help the first time I visited and utterly brilliant the second time I went down.

[quote name='thegallery' post='1364776' date='Sep 6 2011, 11:05 PM']Hi I know we are all different, and i can only apologise again for the way you were treated by myself, I had so much to do, and i really thought that you were just in browsing as many people do. If you are ever around again, pop in and I will apologise in person. i did notice the Wal, well hung up alex[/quote] This is a great post. I'd have no hesitation buying from the Gallery again, I think it's a great place to go.

Eb, just to be a tit really!

[quote name='Merton' post='1364043' date='Sep 6 2011, 01:09 PM']Feel bad I haven't kept up to speed with Chi Cheng, is he still with us and still battling?[/quote] Didn't even realise anything had happened to him till just now! Sad to hear, he seemed like a really humble and nice guy in interviews.

My favourite bass player, by quite a sizable amount. He ticks every box, versatile, massive skills, able to play what's right for the song, and incredibly humble. Overwhelmingly everyone who plays with him always say he's the best money can get, and his CV sort of reflects it... he's like the Abe Laboriel Jr. or the bass world right now, he's on everything.

[quote]the other droning on about DJ Shadow like he was the next big thing. The BG guy did not seem to know who he was, and after all, 'Endtroducing' was only realesed in '96 (sorry, being a bit of a bitch here).[/quote] Amazing! Anyway, that's a pretty shocking. It was only last month that I posted up what a brilliant visit I'd had to the Gallery and how forthcoming John had been about letting me get my hands on some incredibly expensive instruments without knowing about me or my background. He wasn't incredibly chatty or anything, but more than forthcoming, very quick to help out. Furthermore Martin was a great help in sorting out shipment of my amp and a few technical difficulties I had with it a few months after purchase. The first time I went to the Gallery though, I was greeted (or not greeted actually) by Alex, and if I'm totally honest his social skills left my drummer and I less than impressed, especially considering I'd trekked all the way from Liverpool (3 hours one way £50 return) with 2k to spend on a new amp. He initially seemed reluctant and hostile, although after a while he started to warm to me for some reason or another (I was only 19 at the time, maybe he thought I was a time waster, although quite frankly my age and the amount of money I had on me is neither here nor there). I put it down to him having a bad day, and actually after a while I did end up having a brief chat with him and figured that's the kind of person he was. I'm not surprised you're not impressed though. I'd hate to think that the Gallery would become one of those places where elitism started to take hold. I'm sure one of the guys from the shop will be along to explain their position on this anytime soon.

[quote name='Doddy' post='1357921' date='Aug 31 2011, 07:31 PM']Why does everyone think that they are good enough to post lessons on Youtube?[/quote] Give him the benefit of the doubt, he's only a young lad out to impress. He'll get enough comments under his video telling how bad his video is without us adding to it.

[quote name='silddx' post='1356833' date='Aug 30 2011, 08:52 PM']Over the past couple of months, I have hardly played bass at home, but I play guitar every day. And when I go to rehearsals as a bassist and play songs we know, and work on new songs, I am a much better bassist. I am more fluid, more imaginative, more dynamic, more expressive and more comfortable. I am also playing more with a pick and right hand damping more. Along with the volume pedal which has become a large part of my natural style, I am really feeling it now, not just mechanical. I am a much better player through not playing at home. Not that I am advocating this approach you understand. I am finally happy not being a reader, I got fed up of feeling guilty about it and shed that stupid burden. I am a happy bassist (for a f***ing change ).[/quote] I am in exactly the same boat. This is because I don't actually have any basses at home right now, only an acoustic so I find myself playing much more guitar each day. As BigRedX pointed out it's one of the best reasons to take up another instrument; to have a slightly higher understanding of your role as a bassist.

[quote name='Doddy' post='1357592' date='Aug 31 2011, 02:48 PM']I've always found the problem with guitar to learn theory is it is too easy to rely on movable fingering patterns and chord shapes without knowing anything about what you are playing other than the shape,which is why many guitar and bass players don't know things like chord tones and scales-they can play the pattern,but they don't know what they are playing.You can't do this on a keyboard.[/quote] And for the same reason, I find that guitar is a much more accessible instrument to play. As a younger child I was taken to piano lessons and hated it and showed no interest in carrying it on as a hobby. By the time I was 12 and had discovered guitar and all these sounds were just falling under my fingers, it felt much more natural than a piano ever did. Thus my entry into music and a greater understanding of theory was through guitar, scales, chordal knowledge, the lot.