risingson

Failing to note dynamic changes/playing dynamically in a band context are really basic flaws in technique, I can't really play with musicians that don't observe dynamics for too long.

[quote name='JPS' post='1142382' date='Feb 26 2011, 02:47 PM']Siddx I was just thinking the same. It is deeply impressive on a technical level, but often frighteningly dull on most others (and that's not just because I can't play it). Honest! Still there's room for all sorts of music (and opinion) and the bass would be pretty limited if we all played root and fifth below the seventh fret I guess. Ironically I can listen to Coltrane, or Sony Rollins et al for ages quite happily. The solos just seem, well better constructed, more interesting and engaging.[/quote] I think it all depends on (dare I say this? I think I'm going to anyway, please no one shout at me) whether you value the bass guitar as a solo instrument! I don't value bass guitar solos as much as I do soloing on sax or trumpet because I think the range, tonality and sound of both the aforementioned instruments suit a solo performance, something that I don't always think is true of bass guitar. I was listening to Sonny Rollins the other day, he's probably my favourite sax player. His solos are quite understated in parts and show notable amounts of restraint, yet he can still manage to 'say a little and mean a lot'. I would argue that when a bass player solos, it can often feel like more is required technically or musically in order for a sustained listener interest in the what's going on.

Certainly knows his stuff! Might try and jam over that chord progression later, sounds rather nice.

Like or dislike his tone, there's little arguing that he pioneered the one of the most recognisable and widely imitated electric bass sound ever conceived. There's only a handful of bass players that can boast that kind of accolade.

James Jamerson, Paul McCartney, Anthony Jackson, Pino Palladino are my 4 staple and longest standing influences for the notes they choose and the way they contribute to their music so well.

There are plenty of good second hand bass guitars to be found on this very site under the 'For Sale' section, the new Squier basses are very good indeed for the price and really look the part. In terms of amps, there's also a lot to look at as well, like Pete mentioned there's a lot to be said for some of the old Peavy combos. The Washburns I also happen to think make good basses for the price range you're looking at!

My old uni tutor had one originally given to Paul McCartney. It's a long story how he ended up with it, but it was a nice instrument... shame I couldn't play it as it was a lefty.

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='1137871' date='Feb 22 2011, 10:45 PM']We've done that thread several times. It usually comes just before the Macca thread and after the Mark Fleaking Slapper thread. It's probably due any time next month. BTW, I agree about the duck.[/quote] I guess now isn't the time to start drawing up parallels between Macca and Peter Hook's bass playing then?

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137716' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:58 PM']If it wasn't for Ian Curtis would we even be having this conversation?[/quote] THAT'S a fair point. He was really the life and soul of what Joy Division was all about, but then New Order happened, so maybe it's fair to say that New Order might not have happened if it wasn't for Ian Curtis, but then maybe it's not. Frankly I'm not too sure I care now after talking about it for so bloody long

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137710' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:55 PM']Certainly more than I realise. [/quote] I wouldn't want to insult your intelligence but it would be worth having a look at just how many bands and producers hold up Joy Division's sound as a big influence. Also, where was it proved that Hook didn't have a hand in the Moog part in Blue Monday? As far as I was aware it was Sumner and Hook's part. Not heard Peter Hook's solo stuff. If it's anything like Adam Clayton's solo album though then I'm surely in for a treat!

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137614' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:09 PM']Haha when you said "most instantly recognisable bass lines of [b]recent memory[/b]" I honestly didn't realise you were on about from 30 years a ago..... and he's being playing variations of that bass line ever since.[/quote] Poor choice of words on my behalf perhaps. I should have said 'two of the most recognisable bass parts of the last 30 years'. [quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137614' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:09 PM']It's hardly worth mentioning his contribution on Blue Monday as it's not the main synth part which I presume is the recognisable part you mention and not the few second of real bass. [/quote] The format of the bass line shouldn't really detract from the context of the argument which is that you know pretty much instantly what tune you're listening to. Musicianship for some bass players extends beyond the realms of their own instrument... some have even been known to embrace other means of analog instrumentation like the Moog in that tune. Some of them even write their own songs!! [quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137614' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:09 PM']I'm not slamming him, I used to enjoy Hooky basslines when I was a kid and they still don't hack me off to the point of being unlistenable now but I can see them for what they are. I take issue when he's described as a musical genius though (there are are people that swoon over a pile of bricks being "art" - so what are you gonna do) from what I know of him, I'm sure if you spoke to him he'd be the first to agree that he can hardly play bass and was just in the right place at the right time. [/quote] I couldn't describe him as a genius, but I'm not too sure what constitutes 'genius' anyway, the word gets bandied around too much nowadays. What he is is an important figure in a period of music that has influenced a massive amount of bands, more so than a lot of people realise. Also, I should add that the last time I listened to Joy Division or New Order was a long time ago and I wouldn't claim to be their biggest fan, but I do appreciate their music and what they brought to the forefront. But it's all too easy to pawn someone like Peter Hook off as crap without actually standing back and seeing the bigger picture. Also, life is about being in the right place at the right time, that's how things end up happening.

[quote name='Clarky' post='1137601' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:02 PM']That clip might be rubbish but Hooky did some brilliant bass (yes, bass not guitar or anything else) lines. What is more they help make (and in some cases define) the song, despite his lack of technical brilliance. Take a listen to 24 hours, Ceremony, Transmission, or several others (LWTUA already mentioned, She's lost control, Disorder). No other bass player (at least at that time) sounded anything like him. How many bass players today can make that claim?[/quote] + 1 You've managed to put it more succinctly than I could really.

[quote name='crez5150' post='1137550' date='Feb 22 2011, 07:37 PM']Well one really seeing as one was a sequenced bass synth...[/quote] Yeh of course but the premise is still there and it's still his own music. I think this is where the confusion starts; what's more important, a load of slick musicians with mad chops and technical skills making music, or a bunch of musicians with the means of writing excellent music but with less than impressive technical skills and/or theoretical knowledge? To me the latter often produces the most interesting results because the imperfections add to the brilliance of the music because of how raw and real it sounds.

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137548' date='Feb 22 2011, 07:36 PM']Which 2 is that then? (I'm not being sarcy - I honestly can't think what you mean right now)[/quote] Love Will Tear Us Apart and Blue Monday. Whether you like 'em or not doesn't make them any less recognisable. [quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137548' date='Feb 22 2011, 07:36 PM']He has a repetative style of playing the same 3 or 4 rising notes in a riff (as you can see from the OP). I think you may be overestimating his actual contribution to the world of music.[/quote] I'm not underestimating anything What I would say is that I find it endlessly frustrating how someone can be slammed for their perceived lack of technical 'ability' when the sum of it all equals music that has been so very influential. You might not be aware of of Joy Division or New Order's wider influence, in which case it's more likely that you're underestimating their impact on popular music. It's like saying that John Lennon wasn't a particularly talented pianist. You'd probably be right in saying so, but then his music was so fantastic that his piano skills pale in comparison to his prolific and highly acclaimed output. Peter Hook is never going to be up there with the likes of John Patitucci in terms of the level of skill he can bring to bass playing, but his contribution to his style of music is no less significant.

Threads like this always remind me of how unadventurous and if I'm honest, how close-minded people can be. As someone's already pointed out, the guy had a hand in Joy Division and New Order, and produced two of the most instantly recognisable bass lines of recent memory. He's an incredibly inventive bass player, and whilst a lot of the time I choose not to listen to Joy Division or New Order's music much anymore, I can't help but feel a lot of the criticism aimed at him is based on his perceived inability to fall in line and take on the typical role of what a bassist is 'meant' to do. Boring... at least give him the credit playing for contributing towards his music in his own unique way before claiming that 'he's not a bass player because he doesn't play the bass parts'. It's such a redundant argument.

Yep having the same issue!