Beedster

I remember being in a London gear shop with our then guitarist and seeing an early electronic guitar tuner. He didn't understand why anyone would ever need one. I asked if that's because he can tune by ear. He said, no, he just didn't see the need to tune

Start a different thread

Can't disagree with any of that, but let's get into the guitar technique thing a bit, because you suggested it was pretty ordinary, fair enough, but I wonder why that matters? From a position of ignorance perhaps I'd say the same of Keith Richards, but for me, like NY's playing, his in many ways defined the sound of the recordings? Goes back perhaps to the old 'Not the best drummer in the the Beatles but the best drummer for the Beatles' thing? If it's a case of, 'I just don't like his playing', that's fine, but 'ordinary' suggests a lack of expertise that I think misses the point of a discussion of recordings?

That's the reality, this came up in another thread, a 100% honest seller does not mean that s/he is sufficiently expert to know what they're selling. There are some very dishonest and sometimes simply careless dealers out there selling some very honest payers some very dodgy basses. When I was looking for my '64 - Jack, you were there the day i found it you may remember - I went into a lot of the big name shops. Even those guys would say things like "I'm not taking the neck off, it came from ....... who used to play in ........ so I know it's kosher". On this basis I was assured by a very well known dealer in SW London that a lovely Precision they had was June '64. I showed them my card and said that I would take it away that day if they're prepared to take off the neck and pickguard and prove it to me, because I didn't think it was, but of course there's enough wiggle room around various indicators for me to not be 100% sure. Neck was '67 Bottom line, as Jack said, if the only evidence is 'what the previous owner told me', you are essentially gambling. You might get lucky and buy a '67 and find it's really a '62. But by the same token, Trump might concede defeat and the UK Government might get track and trace working.....

Well said, I played in a band a few years back with a guy who'd spent most of his life trying to emulate NY's guitar tone and said that it was just impossible as it was all about that; feel and emotion, not technique and equipment. i think you're right re his songs, now I think of it, and perhaps unlike TW, most of the cover versions are not as good as the originals, Helpless being a great example

Even if his legacy was only his songs, that's a pretty decent legacy. Lot of people can play guitar or sing a whole lot better than NY, how many people can write songs of the quality and consistency (I don't mean consistency in style but in quality) of those by NY? I've always felt he's a bit like Tom Waits in this respect, some of TW's versions of his own songs are pretty poor compared to some of the cover versions. As is also the case with TW, there's so many of NY's songs that i listen and think "it would be so much better if.......", but I suspect that's one of the reasons he has the status he does, he walks to the beat of his own drum, not that of popularity or commerciality.

I guess by ‘original’ he means not a reissue? It’s not a poor listing to my mind, but price is probably optimistic

That's not cheap for a non-original instrument in pretty poor condition?

Unusually in this case the J-PUP appears aligned with the strings, I’ve seen plenty that aren’t

Exactly what I was thinking when I saw it

Yep, I love his habit of using first takes of tracks having told the band they were rehearsing. As you say, sloppy and loose in the best way. Almost the Crazy Horse arhythm section

I was referring to the time of his move from Canada to the US

Stealing from his bandmates and friends to further his career whilst apparently leaving them high and dry meets my definition of selfish in the extreme! But having said that, I'm going on the account in 'Shakey', and whilst it certainly appears to be a very well researched biography, there's two sides to every story. He's not alone; I've worked with a lot of very successful people, and there's no doubt that the early trajectory of many of them is - even has to be - one of selfishness and of hard decisions. I certainly get the impression from the book that he had a strong sense of destiny at the time - certainly justified by what he went on to achieve - and I'm guessing that would explain a lot of his actions. There's also no doubt from the book that he has a strong sense of karma in relation to a lot of things that have happened in his life, good and bad.

Given the intonation on most 60s bass tracks, I imagine if you get your tuning 100% to the guitars/vocals it’ll sound nothing like the recorded bass

I doubt it's that simple, I don't know how CC works but is the seller assured they can buy it back for something close to the sale price plus some commission? If so, it's a way of getting through a tough time financially and being able to buy back the instrument? Either way, and just to be clear, I'd say that all the same issues I've raised above would be a factor with anyone except a specialist business seller on eBay, Reverb etc - and even on BC - unless that is it was a private seller recognised as an authority on vintage instruments (there's a few on BC of course). I think we've all agreed in various threads on the forum that there are probably a lot of people out there who have paid over the odds for non-original and/or inauthentic vintage instruments, many of whom are likely completely unaware of the issues. You don't have to be dishonest to advertise a non-original/inauthentic vintage instrument, sometimes just not as expert as you need to be and unlucky enough - having bought one in good faith - to find yourself needing to sell it, which is not a great time to find that it's not worth what you thought. But this is also something that all buyers need to be aware of, as sadly, a 100% honest and trustworthy seller does not equal an all original authentic instrument.

Well said

It’s a very big ‘if’ though. But assume it’s real, you’d still have to be mad, buy from a vintage dealer you have expertise that build your trust. You also have written assurances re provenance and legally enforceable comeback if those prove to be incorrect (the former helps your resale value considerably). But even given this, folks here who’ve dabbled in the vintage market will know how murky it is even among reputable dealers. But buy a 50’s Fender from Cash Converters?

Still very much a fan, but don’t need musicians to be perfect to like their music. His early trajectory was selfish in the extreme, there’s arguments either way as to how that can be justified, and he’s not alone by any means. For me, having seen him as the archetypal hippy it was interesting to read the book and to see the other side, and from there to see the 60s and 70s in better perspective. Love Zuma also

Friend who loves NY got really whizzed off with me for suggesting he read the book when, having started it, he realised who NY really was. Hardly my fault really

I got the first time what you got the second. A guy prepared to flip everyone to get what he wants. The trail of damage he left in the late 60s and early 70s was pretty sad. I think the book makes clear how much he believes karma got him, and how

If I didn’t know better I’d think some of this was Klaus Nomi

This made me smile https://magazine.vinylmeplease.com/magazine/trans-album-so-controversial-label-sued-neil-young-over-it/

Yep, I’ve ready Shaky, hell of a read. Album’s way ahead of its time, hints of Air, nod to Kraftwerk. Hard to believe it’s the same guy who did Harvest?

Had it been released 25 years later by a pair of Frenchmen it might have been a hit

Or Fairlight perhaps?