Beedster

Surely the configurator is the very definition of pick and mix; Jazz neck, Precision body, MM-style humbucker etc, hardware often from different manufacturers and different styles of bass? Either way, I didn't say there was anything wrong with that, but I'd contrast their's and Fender's approach to instrument making with builders at the opposite extreme, for example Wal. I recognise it's an extreme contrast, but in my original mention of pick and mix I'd had mistakenly assumed the business was perhaps more Wal than Fender.

I'll let the owners of recent fenders reply to that

Ha ha, I was going to say "If they delete this, I'll leave the forum", but I don't want to give Ped any more reason to delete it than is perhaps already in play

Even Fender (also pick and mix let's face it) get the bodies and necks matched these days those WoT, mostly anyway

There goes his UK business

Just checked their website out of curiosity and had clearly misunderstood the type and scale of business it is, so some of the above is probably a long way off the mark. It's certainly not a case of a luthier in over his head as suggested above; more a pick and mix parts dealer than custom builder. I can see how tempting the configurator approach is, but frankly unless I was doing something really wild, I'd rather source the parts and put a bass together myself, that way you know what you're getting. There's clearly a load of hardware from different high quality brands on offer, but do they manufacture their own necks and bodies or are they outsourced?

That's my thinking also. it would be a good idea to summarise the thread (possibly in a revised opening post), and then ask one of the mods to close it. It will stand as useful information for anyone looking to buy one of the basses in question, without it getting so long and drawn out that is ceases to be anything but the long and lingering death of a once valid complaint. As Mr Mandrel suggests, there's a point in time at which the moment is no longer in your favour...

Absolutely, it's just the need for emotional closure that's keeping this process going, and that's a lose/lose situation for the OP. There's a real need to switch off the emotions and get on with other stuff. To quote the famous Budweiser ad, 'Let it go Louis, let it go...' And of course, if the negativity about the bass keeps building, come the inevitable day it's going to be a nightmare to sell the bloody thing

IIRC that idea was challenged a while back because manufacturers were trying to avoid returns by making every item technically an order as opposed to a purchase. Either way, why am I getting in to this, it’s a minor issue here:)

OK, if it’s cut and dried, is this or is this not a custom bass?

I don’t think discussion of the legalities is relevant, it would now come down to a war of words anyway. A legal definition of custom in this case would take a while to clarify and cost money to someone, as would so many other factors. Buyer walk away, seller learn a big lesson. Basschat members you’ve been warned, don’t f**k with Adrian

I think it means that, like so many classic bass lines, they sound simpler to play and, dare I say it, less well played and/or recorded than we might otherwise have imagined. In this case, having heard the soloed track, I agree on both counts, although it remains a great performance of a great line. Thanks again for posting tourdefran

Yes

I doubt he will, he and the buyer are both, perhaps with reason on both sides, invested in their side of the argument now. If I was the buyer, I'd accept that fact, get the issues resolved locally and move on. If I were the builder, I'd be kicking myself for the reputational losses perhaps recognising that the sheer drawn out nature of this process leaves him in a lose/lose situation; if he refunds it says he was wrong and shouldn't have made such an intransigent stand for so long, if he doesn't refund he remains the bad guy for leaving such an unhappy £2000 buyer. This feels like a Talkbass thread to be honest, there seem to have been a number of luthiers who have fallen into this trap; too much success too quickly comes back and kicks you. He's a person, probably a decent person with a family and people who depend on him for their livelihoods, and there's no doubt he's a talented builder. I hope he comes out of this OK whatever the rights and wrongs of this situation, and despite what I said in my previous post about his inability to realise what's important in business. There's no doubt he brought some colourful instruments to the party and, irrespective of his apparent low social skills (hardly a crime and hardly unusual in craftsmen) and occasional mess-ups, he clearly made a lot of buyers very happy.

I have a Beat Buddy and a Roland Drum Combo. Frankly, had this tech been around in the 50's, drumming as we know it would never have evolved

Yep, that Ulas Engin thread was comedy gold. I've said in in another thread here, beware of social influencers and niche or new products. No disrespect to WoT, I'm sure he was genuinely pleased/impressed with his instruments, but there's of course always the possibility that the builder, knowing that WoT's a key influencer here, took special care with his orders, care that he clearly hasn't always taken with others (in a previous life I was a pro sportsman. I was given a lot of gear and technical support for free. I reciprocated by giving the people/companies in question very good PR among my friends. All too often my friends' experience of the same people/companies was nothing like the quality I received).

Thanks for that tourdefran

Having seen the prices you quote HH, he certainly isn't by a long shot. If I forget one rather annoying transaction with them, I really like Warmoth, I've got three basses, two Warmoth bodies, three Warmoth necks. They can be picked up dirt cheap on eBay because for whatever reason, they're out of fashion in the UK (without doubt THE best neck I've ever played let alone owned cost me £110 on eBay). But even if buying new, and as long as you know what you're doing with Warmoth's ordering system, and even given import duties etc, you can build a Fender Custom Shop standard bass for not much more than MIM money. Resale value is stinky poo as above, and you have to live with that, but wow, you get a good instrument. I remember thinking a while back that one reason for Warmoth's apparent decline in the UK was the new breed of 'Design your own custom Fender' builder in Europe. Perhaps things will shift back again?

I like Precision necks because, most of the time, they stop me doing too much, the mechanical constraints imposed by a 44mm wide and deep neck are actually helpful when I'm gigging and most of the time when I'm recording, and stick La Bella Deep Talkin's flats in the mix and those constraints are multiplied significantly! I like Jazz necks for a few things, and on occasion it's lovely to pick up a Jazz and feel that speed and ease. But I'm a better band member when the Precision neck slows me down a bit.

So do you want an unlined board with fret markers between the notes as is the case with fretted boards, I'm a bit unclear? Either way, I use a combination of black marker pen and chalk or Typpex when I find a neck whose markings disagree with my preferences

Buying an instrument is an emotional experience, we try to make it logical to justify the expense and various other aspects, but at it's core, like music itself, it's about feelings. A good businessperson understands this and aims to make their customer feel good at every stage of the process. The old model of "I'm an artisan/craftsman/genius, you get what I say you get" is either long gone or the preserve of people building £500k violins. Having read this and other threads about this guy, it sounds like he has let his ego and/or laziness get ahead of his customer service, and in doing so has broken the emotional bond with many of his customers, past, present and future. Unless he makes amends quickly his business will struggle to recover. He might be cheap, but these days so are a lot of very good quality basses.

Yep, the world is changing quickly at the moment, and there are a lot of good people getting caught out by it

Sounds like a tendency towards poor nail health plus poor nutrition, most people's nails will survive poor nutrition

On the subject of band members forgetting things, I'd almost completely forgotten what must be the best example ever, our singer forgetting to tell us about a gig he'd booked? A drummer can't forget their drums, a guitarist cant forget their pics etc if they don't even know there's a gig can they

Funny how the 'pro' scene is so full of amateurs, I've been in too many bands in which the various ex-pro/ex-session/ex-big name band members were by far the least professional; guitarists who'd strop if asked to turn down, singers who couldn't remember lyrics, drummers who despite knowing the band can't set up until they've set up, would arrive 5 minutes before sound check etc. The amateurs always seem to be a whole lot more professional. I went to a wedding earlier this year, and the singer of the 'pro' ceilidh band was trying to get us all to dance the way she wanted us to dance, fair enough given the music, but it wasn't that sort of crowd and she just ended up being rude to everyone because we all wanted to dance the way we wanted to dance. There's a few threads here about the demise of live music, when I look at the way some prats in 'pro' bands go about it, I'm frankly not surprised.